Currency
I have thought about my own personal reaction to the developments of OMD and the start of BND. I don't like the idea of Peter and MJ choosing the dissolution of their marriage to save May. I just don't. BUT I determined that I needed to let it go and enjoy BND, because I also realized that I had not actually enjoyed a Spider-Man comic in SEVERAL years. And guess what? BND 1 was ENJOYABLE. It was a good Spider-Man book!

I started thinking about why I and so many others got so worked up about this. And here's my answer. It's all about our currency. We have accumulated currency in Spider-Man lore, and we have invested time and dollars and emotions in that accumulation of Spider-Man lore. We all want to be experts in the field. Now, with the developments that have happened, our currency has been de-valued! No one is an expert on Spider-Man anymore! No one can pull out the "I've been reading since 1974" trump card because the status quo is undefined and what happened in 197-whatever might not matter one whit today. It is currency devaluation, plain and simple.

So I made the decision to get over it, chunk the currency, and give Spider-Man a fresh reading. Good choice so far.

Props to your staff, Tom. Steve and Tom did a great job pulling 546 together.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-01-09 10:29:45
"And if you can't put aside the larger circumstances, and don't want any part of what we're doing, that's fine too, I understand. Not every comic book is for every reader, after all. But I think you're going to be missing out on some good stuff. "

But you know, we are missing good stuff every month. People can't possibly afford to buy all the good comics out there each month (let alone each week). These days, there has to be more of a reason to pick the comic up. And for a lot of people, you just erased that reason.

For me personally, it's not simply the question of whether he's married or not. If that was the only thing changed in this new direction, I'd be okay with that. But what attracted me to Spider-Man was the ongoing saga; I got into this character's adventures 20 years ago, I got to know him as a person and got involved with his life story. OMD/BND wipes that out. There's no longer any connection to the stories I grew up with (ie; late '80s/early '90s). It's for all intents and purposes, back to the '70s (which, probably not coincidentally, is when the editors grew up).

I guess you may attract some new readers that way, and maybe some existing readers won't care. And hey, I'd love to be proved wrong. I'd love to learn that the stories I grew up are still relevant in these new comics. I'll listen to reviews and interviews for evidence of that. But until then, I can save some money, and I will be interested to watch the sales charts and see whether this new direction truly results in more success than Spider-Man has had in past few years, as you guys have been claiming it will.

Posted by CylverSaber on 2008-01-09 10:33:49
I haven't read Spider-Man in comic form, in his own title... EVER.

But I WILL be buying Brand New Day - perfect jump on.

So I just want to say - THANKS for making it easy for me. I can't wait for the wild ride!

Posted by NewChad on 2008-01-09 10:35:19
Something Cool
While I don't disagree that there is something cool in your company's ability to elicit emotional reactions from readers, I'd say that OMD has destroyed your ability to do that in the future. How is anyone going to get emotionally invested in a character that they know is going nowhere?

Posted by theazor on 2008-01-09 10:59:49
"But I know that the discussion isn't really over Spidey making a deal with the devil, or about whether Little Normie Osborn is alive or dead, or how the Jonathan Caesar story—a character who hasn't appeared in the strip in well over fifteen years—can possibly work. That's all the cloud cover. This is a break-up, a funeral for something that you loved. It's grief and pain, funneled into rage. "

I don't think this is true. This story, to me, just doesn't make sense, because Peter chose his old, dying aunt over his wife, who should be the most important person to him in his life. Yeah, maybe MJ made the choice first, but the same holds true for her. There should be no other relationships that are as important to them as their marriage. It seems to strange to me that characters aren't allowed to smoke but are allowed to destroy their marriages if their motivations are strong enough.

I also don't think you can write off the fact that Peter and MJ made a deal with the devil. Is that what heroes do? Is it more heroic to make a shady deal or to deal with the grief of the death of a loved one? Is the shady deal more heroic than triumph through terrible life circumstances?

Yet, it's the same PR line from Marvel. Yes, we all know Joe Q did not want the marriage. Yes, we know that there was no good way to get rid of the marriage. Rather than dismissing fan response as just being upset about a changed status quo, maybe you could address some of their critiques. For example: Spidey unmasked during Civil War, but no one quite remembers who was under the mask? Don't you think that's a little lame? Sure, I've heard the "just like Sentry" line, but come on...it's lame. Spidey unmasking was a huge facet to Civil War and a huge media event. I seem to remember Joe Q saying on Newsarama that this event would not just be around for a while and then disappear. But now it has, I'm not sure why Joe Q said that if it wasn't true, and the reasoning behind this whole story seems a little contrived to me.

I just wish that sometimes Marvel would own up to some of these things. It seems like just about every plot twist or event is justified, no matter how many people think it was poor. That's probably your job to do, because you believe in your stories. I don't think it's fair, though, to consistently outright dismiss fan critique as whining. There are some loud idiots out there. There are some people who disagree in love of Marvel, however.

But, this is all my opinion. I'm going to give BND a shot, but it's not guaranteed for me that I'll stick with it.

Posted by PercussionMasta on 2008-01-09 11:21:32
I will continue to read Spider-Man ... but I really felt let down by OMD. For actually those reasons mentioned by CylverSaber. Nothing that has happened seems to matter. I was so excited by the unmasking, the fact that spidey no longer needed his shooters... FINALLY there was change...

And now. KAZAM. We're back...??? It just feels cheap. A deus ex machina in the worst kind. And ok, I am Greek, and we invented it thousands of years ago... but still... bweeech!!

But I love Spidey... and I'll continue to read about him. But I really really hope that everyhting will return to before OMD. Quesada once said that the unmasking was 'here to stay'. And I really believed him. I had great respect for him despite a lot of criticism that he's received... And this OMD really undermines my confidence and trust in him... But I'll wait and see....

Posted by Zigy on 2008-01-09 11:22:35
Tempest in a teapot
Internet posters reviled One More Day from start to finish, yet Sensational Spider-Man #41 (OMD part 3) shipped 100,300 copies (ICv2's figures). That says to me that no matter how vocal the internet posters are, they are largely an irrelevant minority.

Posted by jaredgood1 on 2008-01-09 11:28:41
I'm fine with a single Spidey. What I'm not fine with is abandoning lots and lots of dangling plot threads. I'm not fine with setting up huge things, like you did in "The Other", and rebooting before you've ever dealt with them. I'm not fine with a marriage that's lasted this long erased through a deus ex machina. I'm not fine with throwing away character development Flash Thompson's been given recently (good or bad).

One More Day isn't insulting because of the end result (which I'm sure will be terrific), it's insulting because it's bad storytelling. Setting things up and then throwing them out is bad storytelling.

The fan uproar could have been avoided. You could have given JMS one year to quickly resolve all his plot points- the totem, the new powers, Gwen's kids, Peter dying in a graveyard years in the future. You could have given us closure. You could have given us a real, definitive ending to JMS's run. Then you could have done a REAL reboot, and no one would have minded so much.

The trouble isn't the new status quo. It's that the old status quo isn't going to be resolved.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-01-09 12:30:44
Don't Bury Your Rep By Picking This Side Of T
Tom, if you really believe this was a good comic, I challenge you to debate that with me right here. I just read it. I seriously tried to give it a chance, but it's completely off. The positives were the art, the thought balloons, and Mr. Negative. I kinda liked the latino blonde chick that Harry was dating, even though she looked like a hooker because the skin tone and blonde hair combo! The negatives were EVERYTHING ELSE! I don't expect you'll try to debate this, because you're spinning, and you know it. I don't expect you to publicly bash it, but if you're going to start singing general praises, you'd be a lot more convincing if you backed up your praise with the reasons why it''s so great. You and I both know that you would have if you could have. If I'm wrong, and you can back it up, it's your forum, go for it! Just be careful not to bury your rep while pulling these greatness reasons out of your ass, because we know it's not within the pages of issue 546!

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-01-09 14:19:26
Get a grip, Dusty
I thought it was a good read as well. Do I have to clear that with you first? Or win a debate with you for that to be my opinion? This isn't football. There isn't a scoreboard. It's subjective. I subjectively hated OMD, but I subjectively liked 546. Calm down, son. The sky hasn't fallen.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-01-09 14:54:06
Spider-Man Brand New Day !
Tom !

I enjoyed OMD, even though I prefer PP & MJ to be married. I didn't read all the news on the net until after I finished OMD. I did so because I really wanted to enjoy the book. As you can tell, I did! Just yesterday, I finished OMD, and then I read all the stuff at CBR & Newsarama re: Joe Quesada & JMS' thoughts. This was a nice way to better understand what happened in the book, and what happened behind the scenes. Am I happy with the ending? No. Do I hate Marvel? Absolutely not! I am a F.O.O.M. for many decades. And, I respect the position of creators & owners to do with their characters as they see fit. I am along for the ride. I will be picking up BND, but you won't hear from me in these posts (but maybe by e-mail) because, just like OMD, I don't want to spoil any surprises. I really want to enjoy the book! I realize not everyone has as much patience as I do. And I also recognize the need for advertising hype to "stir things up" so people will buy the book! You go guy! And keep up the good work! Looking forward to the "new status quo" !

Monday Morning Lunatic !

Posted by Mon Morn Lunatic on 2008-01-09 15:58:50
Looking forward
So, I've been following up with Pete ever since "The Other" storyline (regularly anyway). Generally, everything I read I really quite enjoyed. I really didn't have a problem with the bio-shooters or other bio-enhancements Pete received, enjoyed the whole Civil War storyline quite a bit and thought it was great to see everything from his point of view, and was glad to see the old black costume brought out for a while.

As far as OMD I never thought it was necessarily a "bad" story in the least. I've always tended to be a little wary of when magic is used to quickly change the current status quo to an entirely new one (I do not, of course, include House of M in this statement as it resulted in a slew of great stories). I think mainly what bothered me about OMD was how quickly it all occurred. Despite that, I felt it was dramatic and true to how the characters just MIGHT respond in that situation.

That said, let's see a What If...? sometime in the future. You know, just for kicks.

Now onto BND. I liked it. It was enjoyable, several new characters to keep it fresh, and the backup stories really got me looking towards the future of this line.

Heck, I've been bringing up the current developments with a friend of mine that does not pick up any of the comics and just wants to hear my opinions on the matter. I told him about the end of OMD and his response was just "Psh, that's stupid". As soon as I told him about the backup stories at the end of ASM #546 his interest on possibilities were definitely piqued, and I think that's the big thing here. The future.

I'm really looking forward to the future of this comic. You haven't lost me as a buyer. Good work.

On a second thought, the delays of OMD were tedious, but there is something strangely symbolic of the last issue being released on the very last comic release date of 2007. Just a thought.

Posted by causeitwasfunny on 2008-01-09 16:50:41
bigdaddyhub2 , you need to shut up
Just because you roll over like a dog and like what you're told to like, doesn't mean I have to. When you grow up, perhaps (and after reading your post, I have my doubts) you will learn to think instead of relying on others to do it for you.

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-01-09 17:26:29
Ask yourself
If Spidey took a gun and shot a kid in the head in one issue, then MAGIC makes everyone forget, and you are told dont worry the next few issues are so amazing that you just wont wanna miss them, would you jump on it and just forget what has happened? Because that is how this devil deal feels. Some will be able to look past how the change came about others will see this as tainted. The fact that all the changes that have taken place COULD ALL have come about, and not crapped on the fans. Spidey's identity I was looking forward to JJJ and Peter fighting over what happened but magic erasing everyones memory going forward I could belive, the 3 other spideys running around already started that retcon. The marriage, heck MJ could have sacrificed to give May Life and made a deal that Peter wouldn't rember her or even better just killed her or devorced instead of creating Jackpot to try and give fans of MJ some stupid reason to be okay with the change...again Jackpot ..really...couldn't think of something better. Webshooters well I liked them but hey webbiing sacks dried up, get torn out... disappear...whatever. Harry bring him back ..whatever..but it could have happened in a better way and not, just there always there with no memory thing...could go on and on...but whats the point. Fans have had just a small time to see these stories and already there are tons of ideas out there that work better, abd you guys had what a year, two more....IF BND had come in a sensible way many of the fans wouldn't have jumped ship and been so vocal...It's not too late to fix this and still maintain continuity and integrity, but the more issues that come out the deeper the hole to dig yourselves out of later.

Posted by DS2008 on 2008-01-09 20:26:18
Thought Bubbles
YES!!! They have returned! I'm gonna LOVE this Brand Spankin' New Day!

Posted by Venomfan1995 on 2008-01-09 20:26:30
Venom fan, I have a question
Weren't you a bit bothered that Venom wasn't one of the villians featured when Peter was reflecting on what he had been up to? The Brand New Day status quo doesn't recognize Venom, Eddie Brock, and that whole period, so how is it that you even exist?

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-01-09 20:38:30
BND
I have several different feelings about the whole One More Day/Brand New Day thing.

First, I'm not a guy who gets terribly concerned about continuity, as long as I get a good story out of it. You know, Bucky being alive didn’t bother me. A great, great story has been going on from it for e or 4 years running now. Norman being alive didn’t bother me, but the Gwen Stacy/Norman kids I thought was just silly and 100% out of left field. Ultimate Nicky Fury being a white guy, then being Samuel L. Jackson, sure. Vulcan being the 3rd Summers brother – enh, its obviously not where the original stories were going. But at least I enjoyed Shi’ar storyline in Uncanny. The MAX Punisher and the war journal Punisher being two separate human beings – hey, MAX Punisher is spectacular. House of M – interesting, well done, logical extension of existing stories and characters. The Other – conceptually not a problem, the first totem stories don’t bother me, but the execution and end result of the Other was simply poorly done.

Hey, if we’re going to retcon into an unmarried, down-on-his-luck Peter Parker, I think I liked the clone/Ben Reilly way to get there better. Well, not really the clone junk, but once it was all settled and Ben Reilly was being established. Which was also permanent, and I have to assume the reasoning (single, loser, etc.) and then retconned away. So why should I really get invested in this status quo, knowing that this mystical BND could easily be re-set in 12-18 months, either by design or by “public pressure”?

Alright, moving on a bit. I do wish OMD hadn’t happened. I liked a young married Spider-Man, I liked that dynamic. It’s also the ONLY Spider-Man I’ve ever know, and I’m 32 now. I think that part of it is one of the things that bugs me the most. The clone story, less than 10 years after they were married? That timing seems more right. But Spidey’s been married for 45% of his creative life or so, and I’d guess there are more stories in print with a married Spider-Man than an unmarried one. 20 years later? I think you missed the boat, too much time has passed, accept it and move on.

I’ve heard the “we can’t tell certain stories with a married Peter Parker”. Ok, I’ll accept that to a certain degree, but that doesn’t mean that terrific and truly remarkable stories couldn’t be written with a married Peter Parker. And to be honest, I think it’s a little bit of a “lazy man’s way out”. Is it harder, sure – but then try harder, be more creative, and bust your butt to turn out better stories. Don’t say “it’s too hard that way so we’ll throw it away”.

I also find the whole “everybody forgets” just a little too clunky. When I have to question how exactly a story from 6 months ago now works, or 2 years ago, or 5 years ago, and sewing that type of confusion amount your readers is poor form. Suspense, mystery, anticipation sure. But pure confusion? Bad.

Won’t we be going rapid fire into a bunch of people learning Spider-Man’s identity now? The first time Daredevil, Wolverine, or one of a few dozen telepaths or mystics come around him, that whole thing will be out the window. Or that MJ and Peter will eventually get back together and move back towards marriage, since I do believe their relationship is one of our great modern romances, and eventually a romance gets stale and needs some resolution – it may be 5 or 10 years, but I don’t know how we don’t end back where we started.

And I do find the whole idea of Mephisto being involved to just be absurd. It’s not ok for Spider-Man to be divorced or widowed, but it is ok to make a deal with the devil? That is decidedly un-heroic to me, and says that Peter has taken an easy way out, not doing the “responsible” thing, that is such a part and parcel of his character. And Mehphisto? He doesn’t belong in a Spider-Man comic, especially in a seminal moment.

Will I buy Brand New Day? I’ll give it a try. We’ll see if I can get over my misgivings about the to start with, but it will have to overcome my initial pre-disposition to dislike it. So we’ll see.

Michael
Ok to print


Posted by mcross76 on 2008-01-09 21:20:03
Question
Tom
Ihave just one question for you if you feel like answering.
Why should I care about the the history of Marvel characters, the stories I read now, the stories I might read in the future if at any point in time an editor says "I hate that about this character" or "I want the stories to like when I was a kid" or something like that. Then you can the characters make a deal with the devil or wahatever story mechanism you like and suddenly twenty years of
stories with that character are gone. The stories I liked or hated, the things that made that character stories something I wanted to read gone. So why should i care about any Marvel character because I do cannot see why I should invest time in something where that can happen. Thanks

Posted by Michael.Ryan on 2008-01-10 04:05:31
My take on all this? Bring back Ben Reilly and Kaine and Jackal, and call it "One More Clone." Then Jackal can make a new Spidercide, and then the story is "Brand New Clone."

I haven't read Spidey since the Clone Saga (which I liked, personally), but the new direction sounds like an attempt to tell good stories, which really is the point. I really liked married Spidey, but since there have been attempts to somehow dissolve the marriage for at least a decade now, obviously the creative folks who have written Spidey over the years want him single. So now he's single -- go and create good comics, and I'm willing to bet all will be forgiven.

But just as a note, Tom -- Don't have Iron Man making any deals with Mephisto any time soon, okay? I don't think my favorite hero's public image can take the hit.

Posted by ljacone on 2008-01-10 06:58:18
Batman of Earth 2 anyone?
Hey Tom,
I’m a long time Marvel reader who took a seven or eight year hiatus from Marvel (and comics generally) apart from the odd one off or TPB during the nineties. My reasons for doing so were a combination of lack of funds (I was in college) and the fact that every story seemed to lead into a crossover so that if I read for example, “Uncanny X-men,” plots were started with characters which I would never see resolved unless I bought a half a dozen other titles as well. I’m tempted to put down “poor quality story-telling,” as another reason I stopped buying comics, but really, as I never saw how perhaps 50% of the X-men stories ended by virtue of not buying the tie-ins, I don’t feel that this would be a fair comment to make.

Then, a small number of years ago, I stumbled into my LCS and was lucky enough to pick up early issues of the Bendis run on Daredevil, JMS on Amazing Spider-man and Bruce Jones’ run on Hulk. Now don’t get me wrong, I really liked the first number of storylines Jones did with the big green powerhouse (not that we saw him that often) but it was the other two titles that blew me away. Firstly because they were just damn fine story telling, and secondly because they had introduced change to the comic book characters which I had grown up with. For forty years (longer if you’re a DC fan) the biggest constant in comics had been the reset button. Something bad would happen the hero in any given story, but by the time the story was resolved the status quo would be restored. Norman Osborn would forget Peter Parker was Spider-man; Bullseye’s injured spine would be repaired (it worked for the bad guys too). Clive Barker does an excellent job explaining the concept, albeit in terms of horror-fiction in his excellent intro in one of your distinguished competition’s Sandman TPBs. But suddenly Aunt May knew Peter was Spidey. The world at large woke up one morning to read a blind lawyer was really The Man Without Fear.

I delved deeper into Marvel’s publishing catalogue and found some excellent progressive story-telling, as opposed to cyclical story telling. It even extended to your company-wide crossovers (when they returned). That’s why I’m such a huge fan of “Civil War.” Finally, we have a crossover that changes the face of, and relationships within, The Marvel Universe rather than being a storyline a-la Terminus, Atlantis Attacks, The Evolutionary War and even Secret Wars which, excepting Spidey could be expurgated from existence and not change the characters involved one iota.

And therein lies the problem. I fully expected Daredevil’s big reveal to be put back in the box. Captain America (Steve Rogers) will return to life. Iron Man and Cap will be firm friends once more. And, as long as these stories are done as well as Brubaker has done them with DD, I can enjoy the return to the status quo as much (or almost as much) as I enjoyed seeing an extended hiatus from it. Even if I would personally prefer to see the changes I have talked about becoming permanent, or even being themselves, subject to change, I can read and enjoy the return to normality because its done in a logical fashion, builds on what went before, and while the original status quo is once again put to the fore, these stories don’t simply ignore what went before.

That is why I have such a problem with Spider-man’s retcon (although I would argue reset would be a better term). I have no problem with retcons generally. Captain America was now in suspended animation for the better part of the 20th centuary…fine. Makes good sense. The Vision didn’t actually have kids…fair enough. Bucky lives….fantastic; one of the best executed stories in mainstream comics in my memory (and completely changes a large part of Caps psyche to boot). But what has been done to Spidey isn’t a retcon, or even a reset truth be told. It’s an erasure. Everything we think happened to Peter in the last thirty years (real time) hasn’t happened. Good comicbook literature builds on what went before. It may not always be 100% consistent, and that’s ok. But this doesn’t do that. It’s not about a character evolving. It’s a retrograde step. And the funny thing is, you’re right. It is about the marriage…but not in the way you think.

You said: “It's amazing to me that no matter how long I'm in this business, the fans can always surprise me. Not that they're upset about the end of the Spider-marriage-no, that I expected.” You’re right. The fans, myself included, are hopping mad, but with us, for the most part, the erasure of the marriage is only a very small part of that. Most places that I have seen fans mention the marriage now that BND has started, they are mentioning it in the sense that it’s the reason Joe Q has demanded this restart for Spider-man. With the fans, the loss of the marriage is not that important in and of itself. It’s important because it seems, from an outside perspective at least, as the root cause within the bullpen for the existence of BND. I’m feeling annoyed because the Spider-man I’ve enjoyed reading over the last three decades now doesn’t exist. Worse than that: he never existed.

Two more quick thoughts:
1: JMS’s run on Spidey only really began a serious downturn in quality when the crossovers started sneaking back in so be very careful with the new format, that the lack of a single cohesive vision to guide the longer term plots doesn’t result in the same.

2: I collect about 25 Marvel titles a month and for the moment Spider-man is still going to be one of them, but no editorial decision has ever left me as close to not renewing a subscription without giving a story a try, so please, try and realize that, at the very least from this fan’s perspective, the reason I feel so chagrined has very little to do with MJ and Spidey’s marriage being undone, and a lot to do with all of Peter’s achievements and evolution as a character not so much being undone, but rather, being erased.


Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-01-10 07:34:21
Metaphysics
The storyline in “One More Day” can be shredded for any of its multiple flaws, including the claim that there wasn’t any gross violation of continuity by the conclusion in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #545. One element that hasn’t received enough attention from the standpoint of editorial mishandling, though, is the mischaracterization of Mephisto. He is, for the purpose of the storyline, Satan, AKA Mephisto, in line with various stories and movies done through the decades that have individuals striking deals with the Devil. In the Marvel Universe, though, he is not Satan; rather, he is a separate evil entity who is powerful, but has physical and metaphysical limits, as evidenced by, e.g., Byrne’s AWC storyline which depicted Mephisto as having a soul which could be fragmented; Starlin’s INFINITY GAUNTLET, which depicted Mephisto as inferior to the empowered Thanos; and Englehart’s HELLCAT miniseries, in which Daimon Hellstrom was obviously not competing against his father (http://www.marvel.com/blogs//entry/806 )
From the metaphysical standpoint, the Mephisto in “One More Day“ was a hopeless mess, and casting it as Satan raises the question, “If that was Satan, where was God in all of what was going on?”

As with many of Marvel’s characters, there is unrealized potential in the cosmic characters, deities and demons. A great story could be told by dealing with the relationships between the Living Tribunal, the Vishanti, Sise-Neg/Genesis, the Stranger, and their involvement with the universe they all reside in. How dependent are they on it for their existence, and how dependent is the universe on their continued existence? Exploring metaphysics can be fun.

SRS


Posted by Steven R. Stahl on 2008-01-10 09:48:22
Sounds Good
Umm...I'm apparently one of the two people who have been hiding under a rock and had no idea about the dissolution of Peter's marriage.

However, as with everything in comics, it's not going to destroy the characters or the universe. It sounds interesting, it keeps with Spider-Man's history of suffering and how he deals with it, and I'd imagine it makes for some good reading. So, good job!

I think the reason Marvel's storylines can create such emotional backlash, also, is principally that they normally draw on emotions more than most comic worlds. We love Spider-Man not just for his cool powers but because he's an ordinary guy dealing with a terrifying world that's often out to get him, etc, etc. So when you create harsh obstacles for all the characters we've grown to love, you're going to get more vicious responses than if you just think he's really snazzy 'n' cool and then he gets put in a wheelchair one day to sell more comics.

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-01-10 10:13:04
Brand New Day
Tom,

The wonderful thing about comics in the 21st century is that if it does turn out to be worth checking out, the TPB will be available pretty soon, especially with you guys on a 3 times a month schedule. That means in 6 weeks you'll have enough for a collection.

I read all kinds of on-line hate during The Other storyline and I personally dropped ALL Spiderman titles until it was over. However, once all the dust had settled and the trade came out I had a complete story that I enjoyed a great deal.

That's probably going to be the reaction of a lot of long term fans like myself. Our initial reaction is we REALLY, REALLY do not like the direction you guys have chosen but, also we REALLY, REALLY love Spiderman. Trade collections allow us to compromise.
We can show our immediate displeasure by dropping a serialized title from our pull lists while still not missing any of the story.

We know that for most practical intents and purposes on-line ranting does little good and that the only thing businessmen can
really use as a barometer is sales. At least by complicating things we make some marketing or sales guy have to do a little bit of extra work in terms of figuring out projections. And I hope you and a few other editors have to break out the old Probability and Statistics texts too. You deserve at least a couple of giant migraines. I have a certain amount of OCD so whenever continuity gets twisted, for my own comfort I have to go back through 40+ years of history and come up with my own way of making things work.

OMD is no more or less annoying than Aunt May's or Norman Osborn's resurrection or the umpteen explanations they tried to come up with for Gwen Stacy's clone (who I think is actually still floating around somewhere along with Kaine.)

Marvel managed to patch over The Crossing and Heroes Reborn well enough so I have no doubt this will work in the long run too.
The only thing I can't resolve completely to my satisfaction is the death of Ned Leeds. If Harry Osborn isn't dead, I'm not sure exactly how the Hobgoblin plot plays itself out or whether Ned Leeds would end up killed in the same way.

Still Steve Wacker says you guys went over all the potential plot points and complications and I know that Dan Slott obsesses over such things as much as any of us. In the end, it's supposed to be for fun and we really shouldn't be as invested as we are but fortunately or unfortunately the kinds of people that get into comics tend to be rather obsessive to begin with. We are quick to anger but we forgive rather easily and quickly as well.

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-01-11 12:41:10
bnd: the younger generation
it's sad, but from what i have read on-line and various related articles(newsweek) the EIC, joe q, has stated in no uncertain terms that they are trying to get ASM to relate to younger readers. us "older" readers no longer matter to marvel. as i stated in my first post in TB's section, i am married with 4 children, and i do not
want my children believing that deal making with a devil is morally sound. obviously, marvel has lost the foundation of morals on which stan lee built it. i'm not a religious fanatic but i don't care what the circumstances were, spider-man/peter parker would not make this deal. i don't know why the "loki favor" was forgotten or omitted in all of this but this is just beyond ridiculous, even for a comic book. parker's persona was very similar to steve roger's in that there mantra was always "there's got to be a better way to do things". what it boils down to is "joe q" did not care about the integrity of the character or the continuity, or the legions of ASM fans who have spent untold amounts of money buying this product from marvel, it didn't matter as long as he accomplished the objective of dissolving the marriage because it doesn't relate to younger fans. as far as the loyal long time fans, so what? who cares? joe q will still get his hefty salary and the heck with us older fans. in other words, if you are over the age of 30(i'm 37 and have been a loyal marvel fan since 1976) marvel doesn't care about us or our opinions. why am i writing this then? as a long-time fan, i just wanted to speak up, because i know there are a few of you out there my age and i hope like me you will take offense to marvel's lack of customer service to those of us that have heavily invested our time and money to these books and quit buying them. marvel thinks we are too old to be reading them, i guess. they have no respect or compassion for us, whatsoever. they have proven that in both, their words, and their actions. i have tried to be respectful in my complaint, so i hope this doesn't get spiked. i have nothing against the younger generation, but why isn't ultimate spider-man enough for the younger guys. it has been a high quality book that i myself have even enjoyed. anyway, for whoever reads and responds to this, thanks, in advance for your time. i have enjoyed the adventures of ASM, but i will no longer be buying because of marvel's attitude toward me as a consumer and their lack of disregard for morals. don't we have enough of that in our world today??? it's sad that you have to fantasize about a universe where morals still matter.

Posted by y2jr on 2008-01-11 15:18:15
LISTEN TO THE FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMD/BND is crap. We didn't want this.

YOU PISSED OFF MOST OF YOUR FANS AND WE ARE LEAVING BY THE BUSLOAD.

This isn't "cool" or "edgy" it is freak'n insulting and we are done with you until this crap is over.

I won't waste my money on any more Marvel crap until this is over. And you had the balls to increase the price to $3.99 for this crap.

Garbage.

Done with Marvel.

Fire Joe Q now!

Posted by HiddenVorlon on 2008-01-11 17:55:17
spidey
I'm not going to $#*$!@% about what's happened, i'm a hard core spidey fan and i'm going to give this a shot, as i've sat through the rest of wtf Marvel has done. And good stories will make me forget this "magical" event. And I also think this gives Marvel somewhat a chance to re-tale some events a la "ultimate style" in the 616 universe, and fix some of the problems that "creative freedom" caused over the years. But show respect to the writers and creators by going out and getting them and saying, "we appreciate you for creating Venom" let's re-do it without the dozen of books Venom had in the 90's that made him overused. Thank MJS for creating Digger and Morlun; let's squeeze them back in continunity. Then start going around slapping the creators for who's responsible for taking away Spidey's web-shooters, the clone saga, and first and foremost "the marriage!"


Posted by z2qy on 2008-01-12 03:42:06
All in all, I think BND is getting off to a good start. Even though I know that it's hard for people to deal with this kind of revamping, everyone should at least check it out. I was not a fan of OMD, but to be honest, I dropped Amazing a few months ago, because it just wasn't the Spidey that I wanted to read. The idea that Pete's whole life could be reworked and years of marriage undone by Mephisto's magic just doesn't sit well with me, and I'm sure that overall, BND is not going to stick with fans, so I'm sure that another retooling of the Spidey universe may soon take place.

Posted by Swordsnake10 on 2008-01-12 14:36:00
Hey Tom, I happen to agree with most of what you say. I have read a lot of the arguments against OMD, and they continue to get weaker. First people were upset about the dissolving of the marriage, then they were upset about 20 years of history being deleted. When that appeared to be not as much of an issue, they started complaining about the deal with the devil. The marriage and what is familiar seem to be the issue regardless of what anyone says. They say that the story doesn't make sense, but if you have been reading Spider-Man or comics in general, for any amount of time, then surely most should realize that they would need to suspend their disbelief of what could and couldn't happen. I also could understand how a lot of these posts would be hard to take seriously. A lot of them are very close minded rants that give off an incredible amount of anger with personal insults, and the inability to understand that some people may actually like what is happening to the point that the readers are blind followers and the creators that support it are just "spinning it" or are afraid of Joe Q. On top of all of that, I find out that a lot of these "boycotts" also include them still following the character after they just swore him off through downloads and reviews. I thought the 1st issue was a solid start. I love Dan Slott writing Spider-Man and am looking forward to seeing what the other creators will do.

Posted by wolviebeserker on 2008-01-12 16:28:39
OMD Epitaph
You know, at the end of the day, the Spider-Fans out there should count themselves lucky that Spidey's a Marvel character and not from DC Comics. If it had been DC, Mary Jane would have just gotten herself shoved into Dan DiDio's refrigerator and that would be the end of it. If it's a choice between merely insulting the intelligence of one's fans, or of showing such a degree of contempt for one's audience that there's not even an attempt to craft a storyline to fit an arbitrary editorial decision, then Joe Q and the powers-that-be are certainly on the side of the angels. Marvel readers just don't know how good they have it. Count your blessings, true believers!

Posted by eldebob on 2008-01-14 02:05:40
wolviebeserker
just wanted to say that, i understand there are those out there like yourself that might enjoy this. i respect your opinion, after all this is still america, i'm a desert shield/storm veteran, so i respect your disagreement. i do want to ask why the argument of spider-man making a deal w/ the devil is weak argument?? i don't know how long you have been reading asm but don't you think that this is way out of character for spiderman??? i'm just saying this has seemingly turned into an alternate universe for asm. for a lot of us, that doesn't seem interesting, but i understand there are others who may like it. i wasn't particularly crazy about the pete/mj marriage myself, i wouldv'e preferred he hitched with the black cat myself, but my complaint is the direction they went in dissolving the marriage/deal w/ mephisto thing. i'm not close minded, i just like for my comic character's to be consistent with what i've read previously. i think jms made great strides in developing sm, such as aunt may finally learning pete was sm, and having some of spidey's allies, the avengers and ff know his identity, i wasn't crazy about the whole world finding out in civil war but i guess without too much ranting, what i'm trying to say is: change in moderation is fine, but radical change for the sake of change is a cop-out. there have been way too many "radical" changes for major characters in the marvel u lately that have absolutely no substance, rhyme, or reason other than to generate higher sales for a hollow product. hope i wasn't insulting in my rebuttal. hope you enjoy bnd!!

Posted by y2jr on 2008-01-14 15:10:41
Spit in our faces
I know it's all been said on both sides, but I still feel the need to say my piece. Wiping out thirty years of (admittedly convoluted) history is a weak move. I know that you want to attract new readers, but I feel this is going to alienate many people who have been reading for the past several decades. I understand that the boss doesn't want MJ and Peter to be married. And if you guys killed her, had them divorce, revealed her to be a clone or whatever, I would have been okay with it. That would be continuing the story. But wiping it clean and starting fresh makes me feel that the last eighteen years of buying every single Spider-Man title was a waste of my money. Everything I read is no longer part of the story. But, I do appreciate you guys working so hard to help me save money on comics.

Posted by Imandote on 2008-01-15 21:16:07