Hey there, everyone, and welcome to the first ever installment of CONTINUITY WATCH.
As a refresher, the idea here is that people will send in continuity “errors” that they have spotted in Marvel comics, the contradictions or plot holes that make it seem as though we are merely fallible comic book creators and editors, rather than chroniclers of the completely real and true tales of Earth-616. Armed with only my wits and the Marvel libraries, I will dive into the matter and uncover the truth, explaining why this was not an error at all, but a completely understandable event in the Marvel Universe.
I think three questions seems like a good amount to deal with in each installment, so let’s get right to them.
Ian Neve wrote:iThere seems to be a glaring error in the recent storyline in Ms Marvel. When she visited her family it went over various issue, and mentioned that she had not seen her family in ages and did not get on with her mother. But, as all long term Marvelites know Carol Danvers stayed with her mother during the time she suffered from alcoholism and was dismissed from the Avengers circa Iron Man # 7 1996/7. There were certainly no issues then.
I’ll be honest with you, Ian, I don’t think you’re going to like my answer… but I actually don’t see a conflict here. If you take a close look at the texts of both scenes (and I did, because you mentioned it) there is nothing to directly contradict what was established. Yes, in the old issue*, Carol’s mother does not let on that there are any ill feelings, but Iron Man just showed up at her house—should she show him her dirty laundry? Then, throughout that storyline, she is revealed as an alcoholic who cannot cut is as a hero anymore. In the new issue**, Carol and her mother talk about the last time they spoke having said some bad things, but they keep it pretty vague about when that was. Carol says she was “fresh out of a pretty damn awful experience.” My guess is that, after the experiences in the Supreme Justice arc, she went back to her parents home and sank further into depression and abuse. When she left for Seattle (where we see her next) they must have had a pretty bad fall out.
The only thing that really confuses the issue is that they keep referring to it as being “years” ago. “A few years back…” “…That many years ago.” It makes it sound like an awful long time ago. Of course, 1996 was a long time ago… 13 years***. But it’s hard to say how long it was for Ms. Marvel. It could not have been THAT long ago, but I suppose we can attribute it to it feeling like a long time when you are estranged from your family.
But regardless of year fudging, all the evidence is there. In MM#31, Carol says she’s never seen that house, as her family moved to Bar Harbor, Maine “a few years back.” In IM #7, they live in Beverly, Massachusettes. So, it must have been after that issue that they moved. It must have been, as there they are, back in 1996, in Beverly. Basically, I can totally understand that, if you’d never read the Iron Man issue, you might not be able to imagine that a mere X (where X<13) years earlier, she’d been staying with her parents when going through a rough time. But you and I, we know better, because we saw it. I have friends who have gotten in absolutely vicious fights with their parents… but they still call them, they still visit. I think this is the kind of “out of character” thing that is actually more realistic than people know.
Friskydingo wrote:Jordan, The November A:TI Special shows Hardball killing Senator (and Hydra honcho) Woodman. It's a giveaway that the story takes place pre-Secret Invasion because Nonstop isn't dead (something that happens in A:TI #19). Then, in Thunderbolts #126, a post-Secret Invasion issue, Senator Woodman is very much alive and questioning Norman Osborn in a session of the Senate Oversight Committee on Superhuman Activities.
Thanks for the question, Dingo! And a recent one, at that! I like it.
Let’s assume, for a moment, that your timeline is correct. I see two possibilities. The first is that he got better. Hardball ironically says “Regenerate from this.” Maybe he did? Only problem here is that the Initiative folks would know he was a Hydra agent, so he would not be on any Senate committees any time soon.
That leaves possibility two, which is the Secret Invasion itself. One or the other Woodman was a Skrull. The way I see it, if Woodman continues to pop up in comics, we can assume that the Lizard-ified Woodman Hardball killed was a Skrull, and this is the real one. If we never see Woodman again, I think it’s a safe bet the opposite way, that a Skrull tried to SAY the Lizard-Woodman was a Skrull, but he was later found out and killed in a horrible way. Probably fed to Venom. I think the latter idea is far more likely.
Problem is, I’ve been poring over my copy of A:TI#19, and I can’t for the life of me find the death of Nonstop. The last time I see her is on page 15, and she seems alive and well. Perhaps you are thinking of Spinner, who dies a few pages later? At any rate, it seems the general consensus is that the Special takes places between issues 19 and 20 of the Initiative. Let me know if I’m missing something, in issue 19 there.
Derek Metaltron wrote:My challenge for you is to explain something that as a Marvel fan I really should know (but again, I don't read much X-Men so no hating!); how did Beast turn blue and furry, and when did it happen? Sure that's easy enough for you to answer.
Hey, Derek! This is an interesting question. Now, while your question, as stated, is not really about a continuity glitch, it is connected to one, so why not answer it! There are a few steps to the answer.
First, Beat became furry in AMAZING ADVENTURES #11. Hank is working on his own genetic samples, trying to find “the chemical cause of mutation.” He finds a fluid of some sort which he believes is the answer, that it can make any normal man into a mutant. Of course, he finds himself in a position where he feels he must drink it. It is this that makes him a furry ape-man.
But he was not blue. On the cover of the book, he is clearly colored gray, where on the inside, a strange purple hue is used for him… but the narration refers to him as having a “mane of silver-black hair.”**** Over the next few issues, he changes tint a tiny bit from odd purple to odd blue, but the issue where he becomes that rich blue we know him as is AMAZING ADVENTURES #15. The narration tells us that he is still changing, mutating further, and when Beast awakens, he cries out “My fur! It’s not GRAY any more! It’s BLACK!”
So, like various other “black” objects in comics over the years, it was colored with blue highlights, and eventually became mistaken for blue.***** As a result, I don’t know what was the first comic where they actually came out an referred to Beast as actually being blue to THEM, instead of just being PRINTED that way. That being said, if he can continue to mutate four issues after taking the formula, there is no reason we cannot suppose it was a slower transformation than he thought, and he made a slow transition from silver-black/gray through black to end as blue.
And that’s three, so I think I will leave it there, for now. Please, I welcome your comments on my continuity patches here. Think it was bogus? Think I am way wrong? Let me know. PLUS, I’m going to need three more “problems” to solve next time, so make sure to find some really tough ones for me, ok? The research is fun. I think posting them down below is the easiest way to get them to me.
Thanks so much, folks! Be seeing you!
Jordan D. White
* IRON MAN #7, collected in the AVENGERS: SUPREME JUSTICE TPB
** MS. MARVEL #31
*** Since then, I got out of high school, got three degrees, and began working for Marvel. Snap bracelets aren’t even cool anymore.
**** In totally weird 2nd person narrative. For the purposes of this story YOU are Beast!
***** Some people say the blue part of Spider-Man’s costume was meant to be black!
It’s a pretty divisive word in comics. In my experience comics fans take it very seriously, and feel very strongly about it. Wherever the age-old continuity debate rears its head, you’ll find raised voices and heightened snark in Internet posts. Is continuity the best thing that ever happened to comics, or the worst? Does continuity strangle the creative life out of stories, or is it the very thing that gives them their long-term value?
Well, like most either/or proposition, the answer is neither. And both. Dividing the sides of the argument that way is inherently false. To me, the truth lies in the nebulous area between here and there. I love continuity very much, and think it is one of the most valuable things about our comics. I also think that it is given too much importance and can strangle stories.
In truth, my intellectual spider-sense went off about this issue for the precise reason that I have argued so vehemently on both sides of the argument. I remember reading interviews with writers who I’d felt had neglected some treasured point of continuity, and seeing them say that they hated continuity because it stifled creativity. I was incensed, and immediately had tons of examples at my fingertips showing how a writer could write a story that resonates with the established continuity instead of in conflict with it. On the other hand, I’ve also been on the other side, and have seen how in some people’s minds, details of a story from 10, 20, even 30 years before can get in the way of a good story. I look at the state of super hero comics today, and I see a concern for continuity that I think gets in the way of making comics the best they can be. Now, I tend not to think of myself as a raging hypocrite, so I thought there must be something else going on here than a simple A/B division. And after some thought, I came to a few conclusions.
Continuity should be descriptive, not prescriptive. It’s a concept I picked up from studying linguistics. There is an idea that the study of linguistics is descriptive in nature, not prescriptive*. It should describe how language works in practice, not prescribe rules and slap people on the wrist if they don’t talk good. Well, I think continuity should be the same. Continuity should be something that results from telling multiple stories about the same characters, not a paddle waiting to spank you if you don’t stay in the lines.
Now, don’t pile on me yet. I know it sounds like I am attacking continuity, but I’m really not. I love it. I am a continuity buff, I really am. Let me try to explain a bit more.
Think about how continuity formed in comics. People kept writing comics about the same characters, and began crossing over the characters from one comic to the next. This mythical continuity spider magically formed in the web of tales. The continuity was shaped by the stories, and when lots of stories touch on the same points, it reinforces that shape. But the stories make the continuity, not vice versa. There have been innumerable times in the past when one story contradicted another—and many of the offending stories are now considered part of the untouchable canon.
Whenever the “prescriptive” use of continuity is criticized, the most common defense I’ve seen is to point out that without continuity, there would be complete chaos. Spider-Man could be a brown-haired married father-to-be named Peter in one issue, and a blond-haired single dude named Ben the next.** If a monster is established as grey, we should expect he’s not going to be green the next issue with no explanation. Ok, ok… joke examples aside, wanting characters to have the same names from one issue to the next is wanting a good, consistent writer. It’s common sense, not continuity. But with over 40 years on most of Marvel’s heroes, being a stickler for following continuity precisely to the letter won’t help anyone.
For example, Bendis outing Daredevil was a great story that led to an intriguing status quo. But… any longtime Daredevil readers out there? The exact same story setup happened years ago.*** A reporter figured out that Matt was Daredevil and put it on the front page of the paper. But you know what? It was a ONE-ISSUE story. Matt did some simple tricks, and got them to take it back, no fuss, no muss. Now, I have a feeling if a new writer came on Daredevil tomorrow and tossed off five pages where Matt solves that pesky Daredevil rumor, fans might be upset. After all, Bendis and Brubaker have established a continuity where it is not as simple as putting someone in the Daredevil costume and acting really blind. But the old story established that it IS that simple! The continuity that “wins” and becomes the accepted continuity forms after the stories are set in place, and is as fluid as any group idea, ebbing and flowing day by day.
Now, my point is not to say that all those facts should be thrown out. I am not advocating that we start an arc of Hulk where he is enrolling in college as a freshman and just let posterity sort things out. The character and the concept need to be consistent. We should not introduce Bruce Banner’s long lost dad when clearly, it only takes a tiny bit of research to find that he’s been in the comics, and he’s dead.**** I’m just saying that if some of the details are not all perfect, it’s ok. If Doc Ock fights Mister Fantastic and neither of them mention that Octavius consulted on Sue’s pregnancy, it doesn’t invalidate the story. The Marvel Universe is elastic enough to allow for it. Maybe Doc Ock lost that memory because when he died and was resurrected by The Hand's ninja magic, the computer chip that held the backup of his memories had a glitch in that sector. And perhaps Reed lost that memory when his mutant son removed him from reality and rebooted his existence in a pocket universe, before restoring him a year later. And if in a later story, Reed and Ock do mention it? Then perhaps when Wanda Maximoff altered and re-altered all of reality around her making her father emperor of the world, she restored their memories to their original states.
One of the places I learned this more laissez-faire approach to continuity was from Doctor Who. There are over 30 seasons of that show, and there has been more than one glaring contradiction in that time. But the Doctor Who continuity buffs? They have fun with it. I bought a book called The Discontinuity Guide, in which they document these inconsistencies and come up with theories as to how they can all make sense.***** Some of them are pretty elaborate. But that is part of the fun of continuity. That’s why I consider myself a continuity buff—I have fun thinking about continuity. Not everyone needs to be a continuity buff—and not everyone needs to know the 40+ year history of every character they read. But if you’re a nut, like me… be a nut because you enjoy it, not as an excuse to complain.
And yes, I do know that Marvel has made use of this idea before. When I was growing up, that was how you earned a No-Prize, by coming up with an in-world explanation for a continuity mistake. And you know what? It was fun! Heck, it made me WANT to find problems, just so I could solve them!
So… all this serves as an introduction to something I mentioned in my very first blog entry. I want to do a recurring segment here in the White Pages called “Continuity Watch.” The idea is that people can send in continuity “problems,” the more glaring the better, and I will do my best to make sense of them. I am working on the first installment right now—I’ve pulled old issues of Busiek’s AVENGERS and AMAZING ADVENTURES from the Marvel library to do some research. I’ll try to have it ready for Monday.
Be seeing you!
Jordan D. White
* I wish I could credit whose idea this was and where it came from, but I did not study linguisitics for long, and I no longer have the textbooks.
** Clone Saga reference! BAM! Where my Ben Reilly fans at?
*** I wish I could give you an issue number. I do consider myself a continuity buff, but issue numbers are something that never really stick with me. It was in the 1990's though, I believe.
**** But even if we DID do that, are you telling me you cannot think of ONE in-world explanation for how that could be possible?
***** One of the authors of said book? CAPTAIN BRITAIN's own Paul Cornell.
The last issue of AGE OF THE SENTRY is coming out this week.
It’s a bittersweet feeling, for me. On the one hand, I’m very excited to see what people think of the issue I’ve been so excited for for the last few months. On the other hand… it’s the end of my favorite series. After this… no more.
What is this AGE OF THE SENTRY, you ask? Why, it’s the best book in the world.
The series was conceived at an editorial retreat in December 2007, but unlike many of the ideas to come out of that retreat, it wasn’t an idea that was discussed by Bendis, Loeb, Brubaker, Brevoort, Quesada or any of the other talented writers or powerful editors in attendance. I was sitting in the back of the room, listening with great interest to the future of the Marvel Universe, and doodling a picture of the Sentry. I’d been reading a lot of Silver Age stories from our Distinguished Competition, stories about some OTHER caped crimefighter with an “S” on his costume, and all of a sudden an idea occurred to me. I shared it with Senior Editor Ralph Macchio.
“We should do an ESSENTAL SENTRY trade. You know, a big, black and white collection of all-new Silver Age Sentry stories, pretending like they came out in the 60’s.” I’ve always liked the Sentry character, ever since his first miniseries. Something about the idea of creating an all-new character and trying to weave him backwards into the fabric of Marvel throughout the years really appealed to me. The flashbacks to fake comics was always my favorite part of the character, so… why not just do that?
He thought it was a funny idea, but I think he knew it would not happen. I realized it pretty soon, myself. Those books are hundreds of pages long. Like 20 issues or so. Your average comic artist would take quite some time to finish that. But I still thought the idea could be fun, so I pitched it to Mark Paniccia as SENTRY CLASSIC. The idea would be to do it like AVENGERS CLASSIC, like it was a reprint series cleaning up classic run of old comics. Mark and I were both fans of Alan Moore’s “1963” and his run on “Supreme”, and wanted to do something in that vein.
It was Mark’s idea to bring Jeff Parker to the series. I had never worked with him before, but having enjoyed his work on AGENTS OF ATLAS and the MARVEL ADVENTURES books, I was excited. We pitched the series as SENTRY CLASSIC, but they advised against that title. Apparently, it was thought that making people think a book is a reprint is not the best way to get sales. Weird, huh?
The series was a dream come true. Jeff came up with the “super-structure” for the series (the shape of which will finally be clear when you read issue 6). I don’t recall whose idea it was to pull Paul Tobin onto the series, Jeff or Mark, but adding him in on the back-up stories was a great move. The pair of them took our basic idea for the series and ran with it, making it everything I could have hoped for and then some.
I don’t want to the give the artists short shrift on this, either. Dave Bullock did our covers, showcased here*. Nick Dragotta did Jeff’s part of every issue, and did so incredibly well. Ramon Rosanas drew two of Tobin’s stories, as well as the Franklin Richards frame story. Colleen Coover did our Millie the Model story, Michael Cho drew the cutest Watchdog in the series, and Bill Galvan brought us the 60’s Guardians of the Galaxy.
Speaking of which, that brings to mind two ideas that made it from my original pitch to the final comic. One was that Sentry time-traveled to the future regularly to act as a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. The other was that before Carol Danvers was Ms. Marvel, she was the Sentress, the female version of the Sentry**. It was her “wholesome” pre-women’s lib persona. Sadly, my idea that, even though the Sentry got his powers in college, he had still somehow fought crime as “Sentry-Lad” as a young teen did not make it to print.
Seriously, though… I could not be more enthused about a series, or more proud of how it turned out. When you read this last issue, you’ll see… Jeff really looked at every single part of this character, really gave it a lot of thought, and made it work better than I could have ever imagined.
If you didn’t check the series out so far, take a look around your local comic shop! There is a good chance you’ll be able to pick up the back issues. And if not, the TPB collection will be available in June. Make sure to pre-order it from your shop, so they order you an extra one.
Who knows? If enough people order it, maybe they’ll listen to my idea for COSMIC AGE OF THE SENTRY set in the 70’s. Or 80’s masterpiece DARK AGE OF THE SENTRY. Or, even (dare we hope?) the dreaded 90’s TURN OF THE SENTRY***?
Keep it Golden, true believers!
Jordan D. White
* Except the one that says clearly that it’s by Sal Buscema.
** Well, just look at her. She has the reverse of the Sentry’s symbol on her costume already. It was a perfect match.
*** I’m not kidding. I have the ideas ready and waiting.
Why, hello again! Sorry it’s been so long since my “Day Two” post. I really need to get more into a rhythm on this blog. I shall endeavor to do better for your sake, gentle readers, but for now, here is the long awaited third day of the New York Comic Con.
DAY THREE-
On Day Three, I had my camera. So let’s see what I took pictures of, shall we?
First up, here’s miss Lauren Sankovitch (fig. 1). She’s probably thinking of pleasant ways to kill me for being so peppy on Day Three of a con. Unlike most of the people I ran into on day three, I had gotten rest the night before. Crazy, I know.
Here’s me and Todd Dezago (fig. 2), writer of “The Perhapanauts,” as he shakes my hand, congratulating me on winning “Most Discussed Mustache of NYCC ’09*.”
Ah, Jacob Chabot and Chris Giarrusso (fig. 3), both pointing invisible guns at the invisible man between them. These notorious fellows robbed many an invisible person at the con. Chris, of course writes and draws MINI-MARVELS, whose second digest is out now. Jacob (of “Mighty Skullboy Army” fame) is drawing the MARVEL ASSISTANT-SIZED SPECTACULAR frame story, featuring yours truly**, and told me his pitch for the next big Marvel Event… which is awesome.
The tremendously talented Amanda Conner (fig. 4)! She told me about the work she’s got lined up with another publisher, and since I love her work so much, I can’t want to see it. Of course, she also told me which Marvel character it was her secret hope to draw…
Here is the aforementioned cast and crew of Comic Book Club (fig. 5). Great folks all. They got to interview pretty much any big name creator you can think of at the con, as I am sure you have seen over on Newsarama.
Terry Moore (fig. 6)! Terry’s “Strangers in Paradise” was the comic that got me back into the fold after a brief departure from the regular comic readership in the 90’s. So, of course, I think it’s awesome that he’s writing for Marvel now, with RUNAWAYS and SPIDER-MAN LOVES MARY JANE. He’s also my wife’s favorite comic creator, so this picture is to make her super-jealous.
This dangerous-looking*** fellow is artist Steve Ellis (fig. 7), artist of the werewolf-in-the-old-west webcomic “High Moon”. I know he’s got lots of unannounced projects coming up that I cannot mention. But they are going to look awesome… just not as awesome as the wanted poster he drew of me at the con. I’ll see if I can post a pic of it later.
Which brings me to this photo (fig. 8). Here’s Steve’s “High Moon” collaborator David Gallaher along with “Occasional Superheroine” Valerie D’Orazio. Val is writing a CLOAK AND DAGGER miniseries which I am lucky enough to be editing. These two are a Comic Book Couple, but so far, none of the combo-names have stuck to them****.
Me and “Hack/Slash” creator Tim Seeley (fig. 9). He was able to pull off looking serious, but I turned into a silent film villain again*****. Tim finished out NEW EXILES for us, and we bonded over our matching analyses vis-à-vis the quality of the Friday the 13th film series. If only he and I could work on a horror comic together…
After that, I went to the Mondo Marvel panel, where they announced PLANET SKAAR over in SON OF HULK******, and then to Tom Brevoort’s Marvel: Your Universe panel. That was really interesting, it was basically a town hall meeting about the Marvel U, where fans get to chime in about what they like, what they dislike, etc. I read some of the summaries of it on the comics sites, and while what they said was accurate, they make is sound much more negative than it is. I can see why—the fans are taking an opportunity to voice concerns where someone is actually listening to them, so their criticism is the point of their statements. But what doesn’t come across in the articles is the love. Almost every person who criticized something started by saying how much they love Marvel, how they’ve been reading such-and-such for years, and how this series or that series is the their favorite. Yes, people get worked up about things they think are “wrong” with the comics, but it’s because they love them. Everyone in that room had their own grouse, I am sure, but at the same time, everyone there loved comics, and probably Marvel in specific.
One last dinner with my Comic Book Club followed. We went to diner that had run out of burgers. And thus ended my NYCC 09 experiences.
But I just found out I should be able to make SDCC this year.
Be seeing you!
Jordan D. White
* If you believe this is a real reward, I will accept free comics in lieu of congratulatory flowers.
** Get this—in a story that takes place at Marvel, I am defined as the COMICS GEEK. I am not sure whether to be proud or ashamed.
*** Relax, folks—it’s not a real gun.
**** “Daverie?” “Valevid?” “Gallorazio?” “D’Orallaher?” This is not working for me.
***** Why does that keep happening?
****** Which is going to be awesome.
DAY TWO-
I woke up early, maybe 7:30. Not something I like to do on a Saturday, but… Marvel needed me. As I descended into the subway in Queens to head to the con, the train was already waiting in the station. I ran for it, and was lucky enough to make it! Except that as the doors closed behind me, the nice ladies on the train informed me that my digital camera had fallen out of my pocket and down onto the tracks between the train and the platform. So, that was fun.
Thankfully, I called my wife when I got into Manhattan, and she went down and retrieved the camera. She told the station agent that it had fallen on the tracks, and he had a scoopy-thing which he used to get it back. The camera was fine. If you’re like me, you’ve probably imagined losing something on the subway tracks before. Well, now you know, it can be retrieved. Public service announcement for the day. But, that means no pictures on Day Two*.
As I mentioned yesterday, I worked the first shift at the Marvel Booth on Day Two. The first thing we did was set up the booth, getting the ropes positioned and such. Then we sorted through the portfolio submissions that had been left at the booth the day before. Myself, CB Cebulski and a couple other assistants combed through the copious submissions, whittling it down to the 12 or so that would get portfolio reviews. After a bit of time wrangling the Bendis autograph line, I took a shift of portfolio reviewing, myself. All the artists I met with were very talented…I would not be surprised to find a few of them working on a Marvel comic sometime in the future.
After that, I was free of my booth-working obligations. I walked the floor with a couple of my fellow Marvelites (Sebastian Girner and Tom Van Cise, mostly) and did a bit of shopping. I bought a few comics, a few DVDs. I got to meet the sixth Doctor**, which was very exciting. I met up with Ryan Stegman, a really “incredible” artist about to do a run on a book I assist on. He told me about a scandalous commission he accepted, of which I can say nothing more here.
I spent another good chunk of time cruising Artist’s Alley, but at approximately 5:37 PM, rounding the corner of the last aisle, all energy was drained from my body as though I had been touched by Morbius’s vampire-sucker-fingers from the Spider-Man cartoon. I spent the rest of the day’s con relaxing at the Marvel booth, but even so, after dinner with CBC guys***, I only stayed at CB Cebulski’s party that night until about 10:45 or so. This makes me an impressive lightweight, as I spoke with many the following day who were out until 3 AM or later. That being said, I actually slept. So there.
Be seeing you,
Jordan D. White
* I hadn’t even tried to bring it on Day One.
** Colin Baker, for those of you who do not know Doctor Who.
*** We discussed Nightwing’s value as a character.
Hey there, everyone! So, if you’re reading this, it means you probably read about comics on the Internet*. If you read about comics on the Internet, you probably realize that this past weekend, February 6-8, was New York Comic Con. There’s even a chance you were there—I can vouch for the fact that it was PACKED. If you weren’t (and maybe even if you were), I thought you might like to know what the convention was like from my humble position inside the House of Ideas. All right! I’ll tell you.
And…as I was writing this up, I realized it was a bit too long to be one post. So, I’ve broken into three easy pieces, for your consumption. As per logic, I’ve got them divided into the three days of the con, and you can check back over this week to see more.
DAY ONE-
The convention started on Friday. I’m not sure what time it began at, because I was still at the Marvel offices working on comics. I had five books that went out last week. I was fortunate enough to get four of the five out the door by Thursday night. The last one (the mighty SKAAR, SON OF HULK) was straggling. There was a moment or two when I thought I wouldn’t be getting to the first day convention at all, but I managed to get it out the door at 4 PM, at which time my fellow assistant Lauren Sankovitch and I hopped a cab and got to the Javitz Center with a good two and a half hours to explore.
So, what does a Marvel Assistant Editor do at a convention? Mainly, I bopped from here to there meeting up with artists and writers I work with. For the most part, I spent the day split between Artist’s Alley and the Marvel Booth, running into freelancers. For example, I finally got to meet Colleen Coover and Paul Tobin, after having worked with them both on a couple of books**, which was wonderful. Of course, I saw Greg Pak, Jeff Parker and Fred Van Lente as well, but since I’d just seen them the previous day***, it was far less exciting.
As the show ended at 7, I went off to dinner with the cast and crew of Comic Book Club. Better known (using their “names”) as Pete LePage, Justin Tyler and Alex Zalben, the guys were covering the show for Newsarama. Their live comic interview show every Tuesday night here in the city is a blast, I go to it pretty much every week, so I like hanging out with those guys. We discussed the announcements of the day, the interviews they’d done and general comic stuff over some barbecue.
Dinner done, I headed for Marvel’s party of the night. It was at a nice downtown bar, and had a pretty good showing. I’m not a drinker, myself, but I still had a great time talking with the very “happy” comic creators nearby. Greg Pak shattered my dreams by revealing that there has already been a story with smart Hulk and “savage” Banner****. Tim Seeley and I were supposed to go to Karaoke, but I ended up having to bail on it because we hung out at the bar so long and I knew I had to be up early to work the Marvel booth the next day.
DID I get up early enough to work the Marvel Booth on Day Two? WHAT famous comic creators will I run into there? HOW much money did I spend? For the answers to these questions and many more you would never have asked, check back in tomorrow!
Be Seeing You,
Jordan D. White
* You’re doing it now.
** Most notably AGE OF THE SENTRY, the best comic ever. Buy it now, while supplies last!
*** For the Top Secret Panic Office Summit, of course.
**** Apparently in an Iron Man comic of some sort.
NATE: So y’got your own blog now, eh? I picture your blogosphere looking different from mine. Prob’ly got more longboxes and moustache maintenance equipment lying about.
JORDAN: Naturally. But don’t fret, I will still appear on your blog, if you’ll have me.
NATE: Of course! We’ll do these Explains bits, and carry them over to each others’ blogs. Cuz if there’s one thing I love, it’s CONTINUITY.
So! Your blog, but I still get to pick the topic. But before we begin on that, did you get a chance to look at the Academy Award nominations? Any thoughts? Happy? Sad? Indifferent?
JORDAN: You know… since I began working at Marvel, the number of movies I watch has dropped dramatically. I spend so much time reading comics, I hardly ever find the time to go to the pictures. I know a lot of people were upset that Dark Knight did not get nominated for best picture. I liked it a lot, but… it just did not strike me as best picture material.
NATE: Nah, more I think about that movie, more it bugs me. I’m glad Slumdog Millionaire got a bunch of nominations, and I pray…PRAY, that the crappy Benjamin Button thing doesn’t win anything. What a piece’a bleh.
JORDAN: Really? Huh, I thought it looked good, from the previews. Ah well. Look at us, talking about not-comics, it’s just like old times.
NATE: Right! Ok, for those of you that don’t know how this works, Jordan’s got 100 words or less to explain something to me, then I get to ask questions. So Whitey, this round is about ANT-MAN.
Explain how we got from a guy accidentally getting shrunk down and talking to ants, to him beating his wife, to him where I hear he is now…cross-dressing as his wife.
JORDAN: Hank Pym, biochemist, discovers particles that shrink and regrow objects. He shrinks, gets attacked by ants. Builds a helmet to talk to and control ants, becomes Ant-Man. Meets Janet Van Dyne, makes her his sidekick, the Wasp. Helps found Avengers. Using growing particles, becomes Giant-Man, then Goliath. Builds robot called Ultron, which tries to kill mankind. Has a breakdown, becomes Yellowjacket. Marries Janet, becomes Ant-Man, goes crazy, hits Janet, gets kicked out of Avengers, gets divorce, goes to jail. Begins redemption in various guises… gets kidnapped by Skrulls. In the invasion, Janet dies. In tribute, becomes new Wasp, rejoins Avengers.
NATE: Right. We’ll pretend that he’s not cross-dressing right now, and begin at the beginning: Why did he commit to the shrinking at first? Did he not know he could get bigger?
JORDAN: Yeah. Like many (fake) scientific discoveries, he did it by accident. He figured out how to shrink, and how to regrow. He did not necessarily know it would work the other way. Also, when he is small, he retains his regular strength, just packed into a tiny body.
NATE: He retains the strength? That means he weighs the same, right? So if he’s tiny on a see-saw, he’ll tip a kid down?
JORDAN: No, I… I don’t think he weighs the same. If he did, when he like… rode on the back of an ant, it would squish it.
NATE: But isn’t “strength” just the application of one’s weight turned into propulsive, kinetic force? So he weighs 1/3 of an ounce, but punches as hard as a sissy scientist? This is ridiculous. I don’t think this could actually happen. We need to tell Dan Slott to stop writing immediately.
JORDAN: I am sure there is some sort of rational explanation for it. Something to do with some amazing pseudo-science talk that I cannot think of off the top of my head. But really, of all his powers, THAT is the one you question? Talking to ants through a helmet is ok for you?
NATE: I’m from the south. We talk to animals all the time (we have to, some are in-laws). So he becomes Ant-Man, then becomes someone else, right?
JORDAN: Yeah. He’s been called both Giant-Man and Goliath when primarily using his growing power, and when he shrink and also uses little wings to fly and “stinger” energy blasts, he’s been called Yellowjacket and, most recently, The Wasp. After his dead ex-wife.
NATE: So…he took his dead ex-wife’s name. Oh man, it would have been SO great if he’d married Scarlet Witch instead, and took her name in tribute:
THUG: “Oh NO! Guys, stop trying to rob the bank! Hank Pym, aka The Scarlet Witch is here!”
PYM: “That’s right fellas. You can tell from my pink tights and cute headpiece that I mean business!”
THUG: “Man, that Scarlet Witch is one bad dude.”
JORDAN: Well, he’s not wearing the Wasp’s costume. I mean… she had like a million of them, but he is wearing a new outfit.
NATE: Well, duh. Wasp was a Winter. Hank’s a Fall. Hey, this was before my time, but Hank went nutso and thought he was a different person, and dressed up like a Yellowjacket, right? And the Avengers still let him be on the team?
JORDAN: Yeah. In fact, Wasp actually got married to him while he was Yellowjacket, if I recall correctly. One of a few times when he went mental. He had been exposed to “Schizophrenia-inducing chemicals”. He later theorized that the Yellowjacket persona was based on his subconscious desire to break through his inhibitions and ask Janet to Marry him.
NATE: So…I mean…seriously. Why would ANYone be willing to let this guy cavort around (especially in his dead wife’s clothes) with deadly super powers, when he’s got all this ridiculous, dangerous stuff in his past? I think we need a new Ant-Man series. Something featuring an Ant-Man that no one likes and has 16 panels per page and could be written by someone that never saw a story he couldn’t overwrite. Think we could do that?
JORDAN: Funny you should mention that… I’ve told you a lot about Hank Pym, but I haven’t even touched on all the OTHER people who have shared the Ant-Man identity. Or the Goliath and Yellowjacket ones, for that matter. But, we’ve been going on a bit here… I think we should continue this explanation next time… on YOUR blog! That’s right, true believer—a crossover!
Hey, there. Wanted to talk a bit about storytelling formats in comics and a bit about those in television.
In my first post, I mentioned P.O.L.E., the Panic Office Lunch Excursion. A frequent topic of discussion at P.O.L.E. is how to save comics*. That may sound a bit presumptuous, but really we just talk about how to make comics the best it can be. And one of the bugaboos I talk about a lot is the manner in which we tell our stories.
First off, I should define what I’m talking about. I’m talking about mainstream super hero comics. You know, the sort of thing Marvel publishes. I may use the word “comics” in this, but I am not talking about indie books, or Vertigo books, or experimental books, or autobio books published by mainstream publishing houses sold to big bookstores. I’m talking about Marvel-type comics.
With that out of the way, the next thing to note is that these comics are meant to go on forever. Sure, there are miniseries and such, but on the whole, ideally, the monthly comics we’re working on right now will never stop coming out. Realistic? Maybe, maybe not. But we’d like to keep making comics forever, and we’d like you to keep reading them forever. This is similar to television, as they will usually try to make a show as long as possible, though I suppose they realize that their show can only go on for so long (soap operas excepted).
So, there are two main approaches to this type of storytelling: serial and episodic. Serial storytelling means the story is constantly moving forward a little bit at a time, each episode furthering the main narrative. In TV terms, we’re talking about "Lost," "Dexter" or "Battlestar Galactica." Episodic storytelling is more of the type where each episode tells it’s own story, something more like "House," "The Mentalist" or "Law & Order"**.
Which one do current Marvel Comics lean more towards? In my opinion, we’re mostly doing serial storytelling. There seems to be a constant drive forward of things changing, one thing leading to the next with a somewhat direct cause and effect. "Avengers Disassembled" to "House of M" to "Decimation" paving the way to "Civil War" resulting in "The Initiative" (and "World War Hulk") which was overtaken by "Secret Invasion" which ended up with "Dark Reign" which leads to***… etc. The plus side of this approach is that a reader who is invested in the story will want to find out what happens next! And next! And next! This is much like "Battlestar Galactica" and its ilk: the desire to know how it all turns out spurs you on. The downside being that some readers will find it offputting to jump into a story that started before they began reading. Who among us started watching "BSG" with season 3?
More episodic storytelling seems to have gone out of fashion in comics today, though it was the foundation of the genre. Each hero had an established status quo, and the stories were not so much about changing that status quo (like on "BSG"), they are about telling stories with the status quo (like on House). And like on House, over time there would be changes to the status quo, but they would be subtle. If you look at old Spider-Man comics, only 3-4 pages or less would be devoted to Peter and Gwen and MJ and such, the main focus of the issue was always on the villain he had to face. The villain story was typically a complete story on its own. The ongoing background sub-plots were the gravy for the repeat readers, but the person who just picked up that one issue wasn’t left scratching their head. I’m not sure if the tastes of readers pulled away from this style, if the increased prominence of creators in the industry shifted how they wanted to tell their stories, or something entirely different happened, but there is a detectable shift.
It’s hard to pinpoint the exact time it happened. Like many cultural shifts, it seems to have taken an odd course. Just sort of eyeballing my own knowledge of comics history, I would say it traced to Frank Miller’s Batman, through Todd McFarlane’s “arc-based” SPIDER-MAN… but what’s strange about those is that they were an odd hybrid of serial and episodic. Let’s take Adjectiveless SPIDER-MAN. It was told mostly in story-arcs. This meant that any random issue of it you bought was not a complete story on its own, so that is serial storytelling. BUT, each of those arcs was pretty much unrelated to the ones before and after. They each took place within the GENERAL Spider-Man status quo, they did not turn his world upside-down. So, that’s more episodic.
Really, I think the idea there was for the artist to tell a satisfying story over the amount of time they needed, rather than to shift to serial storytelling. It was more a shift to the “TPB” style than it was to an infinite serial, but I think once the idea of an issue of a comic not containing the full story became accepted, it brought us closer to the current mode.
I believe the other piece of the puzzle that combined with that to bring us to serial storytelling was a sort of misremembered nostalgia. If you were a regular reader of those more episodic based comics back in the day, the thing that really sticks with you most of all is often the continuing subplots. After all, Spider-Man fights Electro about a million times over the years, but his years-long girlfriend can only die once. Those ongoing threads gain prominence in your mind… but again, they were usually only a few pages per issue. That 37th fight with Electro**** was what the comic was REALLY about. It’s just that over years of comics, the serialized subplot makes more of an impression.
Anyway, this is just the sort of thing I talk about, when I talk about comics. No conclusion is really made, no solution discovered today. In my opinion, the more episodic model is better suited to the genre, but I know lots of people disagree, and many of the series we do are not done that way. What do you think about it? I’d really like to know. Drop me a note below.
Be seeing you!
- Jordan D. White
* Or “How to Save the Comics World?” Or sometimes “How to Save the World Through Comics?”
** I have never watched Law & Order in first run, I have only ever caught random episodes in rerun on cable… and I never have any trouble hopping onto a episode.
*** You didn’t think I was going to give it away, did you?
**** No, I’m not counting out Electro’s appearances, either. Do it yourself.
I love old comics… and thanks to Marvel putting them out for the last 70 years, there’s a lot of them. For example: on stands right now you can find NOVA: THE ORIGIN OF RICHARD RIDER (fig. 1). The current NOVA series is a really fun series that F.O.O.P.O.* Bill Rosemann puts out every month, and this special gives fans of the series a chance to see where the human rocket got his human rocketiness. They’ve taken issues 1 and 4 of the original NOVA series from 1976, wrapped a new frame story around them and, most interestingly, given them a fancy new-fangled coloring job. I think it is neat to see old-school pages shined up in this way. No slam on the colorists who did the books back then, of course—they did a great job with the limited resources they had—but it adds something to them, or at the very least, brings a new angle to them. But the thing I think is most interesting about old comics is the writing. Comics were very different then, and I enjoy reading old ones and seeing how different they are, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. So, let’s take a look at these NOVAs!
One thing about issue 1 I really love is that it’s a true old-school Marvel Issue #1. You get the origin, you find out everything you need to know about the hero, you meet the entire supporting cast… you basically get a blueprint for the entire ongoing series. They lay it out for you, “Here is what this series is going to be. If you liked this issue, you’ll like the rest.” Nowadays, the first story of a new series usually lasts 5-6 issues. If a book has a “status quo” now, it can be a half a year or more before it is firmly established.
Here, we have Richard Rider, lovable high school loser who becomes a hero. And he’s not even a genius like Peter Parker**! Just some random kid. You learn all about his powers, where they come from and what they are. We get his lady friend, his school pals, his bullies. My favorite part, actually, is the fact that his “Flash Thompson” character*** is not a dumb jock—he’s smarter than Richard is. He’s just also a jerk.
I am sure you will be surprised that a book about a man who can fly at rocket speeds plays it fast and loose with science. In this issue, the Nova Centurion who gives Richard his powers is in a space ship. On the last page, you see an image of it in space (fig. 2). Around it are the images of some 15-20 multicolored planets. There is a similar image earlier in the issue (with even more planets, actually) but this one actually says the ship “orbits our world”. I guess the Marvel Universe has a slightly different solar system than we do.
Issue 4 is a classic “two heroes fight” issue, in which Nova fights Thor because the Thunder God is possessed by a villain. Interestingly, it makes a specific effort to fit the story into Thor’s continuity at the time. It was probably mainly done to advertise, but still, interesting. But that is not what I wanted to mention about the issue. I mostly wanted to talk about time discrepancies and fashion sense.
First up, time discrepancies. Or perhaps time anomalies. I suspect that reality 616 was experiencing some sort of strange time variances at the time of the issue—how else to explain what happens here? There are two examples in evidence. First off, as Nova flies at the window of his school (fig. 3). As you can see in the three-panel sequence Nova gets a LOT of thinking done when travelling a distance of maybe… 20 feet? And he flies at the speed of a rocket. He is a human rocket. But wait! I guess he could keep turning away and doubling back, since we can see the trail of his turn each time. He may be flying in little circles. OR, maybe he is able to think really, really, really fast. OK, I guess that one does not HAVE to be a time anomaly. But this next one…
This one is from the fight scene. As I said, Thor was possessed by The Corruptor, but in the middle of the fight, it suddenly wears off! At which time, as you can see (fig. 4), Nova has just decided to put everything he has into one punch! Now… take a look. Between him making this decision and his fist connecting with Thor (fig. 5), a lot happens. Nova talks smack, the possession wears off, Thor calls a halt, Nova notices that something is wrong, decides to not hit him, realizes it is too late to stop from punching, bemoans this fact, and then Thor gets Spangged****. Eight-and-a-half sentences are said aloud*****. It seems like that would be plenty of time to stop the swinging of your arm, no? Clearly, some sort of minor chronal gravity well was formed around them to give them enough time to say so much.
Speaking of The Corruptor, I had to mention his fashion sense. When he first appears, he’s wearing rags, regular clothes torn in his transformation. Obviously, this will not do. He says, “…I must rid myself of these tattered RAGS! I must DON clothing FIT for the EMPEROR OF EVIL! Such attire as only MY FORCE OF MIND can create!” Wow, that’s some big talk! Emperor of Evil, huh? Something only he can create? Man, this is going to be great! The result? (fig. 6) Either his force of mind is not as strong as he thinks, or mine is so weak I cannot appreciate such impressive designs. You decide!
But, let me just clarify: I love old comics. Sometimes they are genius, and sometimes you slap your head wondering how they could possibly believe anyone would accept their premises. But they are classics, and without them, we would not have the Marvel Universe we know and love. I, for one, am very happy that they put out this special, it was a fun read. Oh, and I should mention that if you liked it, you can read another 23 issues of that series in the ESSENTIAL NOVA collection. None of that fancy color, just black and white reprints, but tons more craziness (like a villain named Diamondhead and Nova telling Hulk he’s “been gonged”******). What more could you ask for?
I will try to blog more (and maybe shorter) soon. And yes, I am still going to try to do a “Continuity Watch” so send me more suggestions for continuity mistakes and discrepancies to debunk!
Be seeing you!
-Jordan
*Friend Of the Ol’ Panic Office.
** See the line “Even my YOUNGER BROTHER makes the honor roll, while I barely pass lunch.”
*** Mike “Calls Everyone Punk” Burley.
**** Then skragged! Bad day to be Thor.
***** OK, more like five-and-a-half sentences and three fragments.
****** That’s a “Gong Show” reference. Can you handle it?
Hello, and welcome to the White Pages. I’m Jordan D. White, and I read too many comic books.
Since this is the first entry in this All-New, Action-Packed, Astonishing blog, I thought I would tell you a bit about myself and what I plan to write about. Let’s think of it as “Jordan Explains… Jordan”. No, the blog won’t typically be me exploring my own biography, but I thought as an introduction you might want to know who the heck I am.
I’m an assistant editor here at Marvel Comics. I’ve been working here for almost a year-and-a-half*. The editor I work with is Mr. Mark Paniccia. With him, I’ve worked on NEW EXILES, ETERNALS, MARVEL ADVENTURES HULK, SKAAR, SON OF HULK, INCREDIBLE HERCULES, BIG HERO SIX… and a little book we like to call “The Apex of the Artform” (thanks, Chris Sims!), THE AGE OF THE SENTRY**. I’m also editing a few books on my own, including ENDER'S GAME, ENDER'S SHADOW and the upcoming relaunch of CLOAK AND DAGGER.
But, more importantly, I am a giant comics geek, and (as stated) I read way too many comics.
I’ve been reading comics longer than I can ever remember; they’ve just always been part of my life. When I was young, Spider-Man was my main interest, but he was soon joined by Claremont and Davis’s EXCALIBUR. I was 11 in 1991 when Todd McFarlane made SPIDER-MAN #1, and I was utterly swept up in the adulation for the superstar artists who became the Image founders. I bought (or rather, begged my parents, grandparents… ANYONE to buy for me) as many comics as possible. But as I neared the end of high school, with comic shops closing all over, my fanaticism was died down a bit. For a good few years, I only read the occasional TPB.
But then an odd thing happened… almost the opposite of what happens to many comic fans. When I started dating the woman I eventually married, she got me back INTO comics in a major way. We two fed each other’s fandom, and ended up buying more comics than either of us ever had before. I could tell you the amount we spent per week on comics… but you would be scandalized and I would be embarrassed, so let’s just say it was a lot. Not quite as much as the rent on our apartment. But close***. I was reading a ton of comics every week, mostly from the front of the catalogue publishers, but some stuff from the back of the book. I even worked at the local comic shop in Binghamton, NY (Fat Cat Books) for a year or so, doing the diamond ordering and such. For most of my friends, I was by far the biggest comics geek they knew.
Now that I work at Marvel, a lot of people ask if it’s ruined comics for me. You know, that idea that when your hobby becomes your job, you need a new hobby. The thought that if I spend every day working on comics, reading them in one form or another, the last thing I’ll want to see when I get home is another comic book.
They could not be more wrong.
I love comics. If anything, I read more than ever, now. I read (almost) every Marvel book that comes out, and I still buy a hefty stack of DC, Image, Dark Horse and smaller press books every week. Sometimes it’s a bit daunting, the way they can pile up if I take a few days off reading them… but I always seem to manage. As of me writing this, I bought this week’s comics last night, but I only just finished last week’s stack on the train this morning. So, I really do read a lot of comics. Yes, working for Marvel has changed the way I look at them a bit, but it does not make me want to read them any less.
So, as someone who officially**** reads too many comics, what will I be writing about on this blog? Good question.
First off, as you would expect from someone working at Marvel on the Marvel site, there will be some teases for upcoming stuff.
Second, whatever happens to strike my fancy about comics, and the state thereof. I think a lot about what makes a hero a hero, and what it means to do the right thing. Morality stuff, philosophical-like. So, I bet that will come up a lot. But I promise I won’t be boring!
Third, with the permission of my associates here in the Panic Office, I’d like to report on our “Panic Office Lunch Excursions”. Every Friday Mark, Lauren Sankovitch, Charlie Beckerman, the occasional guest and I hold a “P.O.L.E.”. We usually discuss the state of comics and how to make them the best they can be. Also, weird facts I learned about bacteria.
Fourth, I had an idea for something (maybe) called “Continuity Watch.” I know comics continuity is a controversial issue in comic fandom today, so… I want to fix it! You can email me or comment on the blog about any continuity “mistakes” you see in Marvel’s comics, and I will do my best to make sense of them. After all, if it happened in a Marvel comic, it’s canon! I’ll do whatever is necessary to explain what SEEMED like a contradiction, even asking other editors or maybe even creators (if they can take time off their video game systems to answer an email).
Plus, I am sure there will be other new ideas that come to me later. Maybe I’ll explain more stuff to Nate Cosby. Maybe I will talk about how much I like an issue of one of my fellow editors’ books. Maybe I will talk about "Gremlins 2: the New Batch"*****. Who knows? But, I’m open to your suggestions or feedback, so feel free to comment below or send me an email at jwhite@marvel.com.
Oh, and before I go, I want to give two special thanks. First off, thanks to Alexander Zalben, who suggested the name of the blog to me (which led me to the silly name of this first entry). Second, thanks to Irene Lee, who was kind enough to color the self-portrait used as my picture here. You guys are great!!
Be seeing you!
- Jordan D. White
* September 10th, 2007 was my first day, in case you want to buy me anniversary presents.
** More on this in further entries. It is the best comic.
*** To be fair, it was a really cheap apartment.
**** Certified by the Comic Reading Analysis Program.
***** My favorite movie for a good 3-4 years of my childhood.
About this blog: Jordan loves reading comics, and he loves thinking about them way too much. Super Hero morality, quirks of continuity, and the daily grind of putting out funnybooks… it’s all fair game.
About the author: Jordan D. White is an assistant editor at Marvel. In his free time, he reads way too many comics. Seriously.
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