Hey there, everyone, and welcome to the first ever installment of CONTINUITY WATCH.
As a refresher, the idea here is that people will send in continuity “errors” that they have spotted in Marvel comics, the contradictions or plot holes that make it seem as though we are merely fallible comic book creators and editors, rather than chroniclers of the completely real and true tales of Earth-616. Armed with only my wits and the Marvel libraries, I will dive into the matter and uncover the truth, explaining why this was not an error at all, but a completely understandable event in the Marvel Universe.
I think three questions seems like a good amount to deal with in each installment, so let’s get right to them.
Ian Neve wrote:iThere seems to be a glaring error in the recent storyline in Ms Marvel. When she visited her family it went over various issue, and mentioned that she had not seen her family in ages and did not get on with her mother. But, as all long term Marvelites know Carol Danvers stayed with her mother during the time she suffered from alcoholism and was dismissed from the Avengers circa Iron Man # 7 1996/7. There were certainly no issues then.
I’ll be honest with you, Ian, I don’t think you’re going to like my answer… but I actually don’t see a conflict here. If you take a close look at the texts of both scenes (and I did, because you mentioned it) there is nothing to directly contradict what was established. Yes, in the old issue*, Carol’s mother does not let on that there are any ill feelings, but Iron Man just showed up at her house—should she show him her dirty laundry? Then, throughout that storyline, she is revealed as an alcoholic who cannot cut is as a hero anymore. In the new issue**, Carol and her mother talk about the last time they spoke having said some bad things, but they keep it pretty vague about when that was. Carol says she was “fresh out of a pretty damn awful experience.” My guess is that, after the experiences in the Supreme Justice arc, she went back to her parents home and sank further into depression and abuse. When she left for Seattle (where we see her next) they must have had a pretty bad fall out.
The only thing that really confuses the issue is that they keep referring to it as being “years” ago. “A few years back…” “…That many years ago.” It makes it sound like an awful long time ago. Of course, 1996 was a long time ago… 13 years***. But it’s hard to say how long it was for Ms. Marvel. It could not have been THAT long ago, but I suppose we can attribute it to it feeling like a long time when you are estranged from your family.
But regardless of year fudging, all the evidence is there. In MM#31, Carol says she’s never seen that house, as her family moved to Bar Harbor, Maine “a few years back.” In IM #7, they live in Beverly, Massachusettes. So, it must have been after that issue that they moved. It must have been, as there they are, back in 1996, in Beverly. Basically, I can totally understand that, if you’d never read the Iron Man issue, you might not be able to imagine that a mere X (where X<13) years earlier, she’d been staying with her parents when going through a rough time. But you and I, we know better, because we saw it. I have friends who have gotten in absolutely vicious fights with their parents… but they still call them, they still visit. I think this is the kind of “out of character” thing that is actually more realistic than people know.
Friskydingo wrote:Jordan, The November A:TI Special shows Hardball killing Senator (and Hydra honcho) Woodman. It's a giveaway that the story takes place pre-Secret Invasion because Nonstop isn't dead (something that happens in A:TI #19). Then, in Thunderbolts #126, a post-Secret Invasion issue, Senator Woodman is very much alive and questioning Norman Osborn in a session of the Senate Oversight Committee on Superhuman Activities.
Thanks for the question, Dingo! And a recent one, at that! I like it.
Let’s assume, for a moment, that your timeline is correct. I see two possibilities. The first is that he got better. Hardball ironically says “Regenerate from this.” Maybe he did? Only problem here is that the Initiative folks would know he was a Hydra agent, so he would not be on any Senate committees any time soon.
That leaves possibility two, which is the Secret Invasion itself. One or the other Woodman was a Skrull. The way I see it, if Woodman continues to pop up in comics, we can assume that the Lizard-ified Woodman Hardball killed was a Skrull, and this is the real one. If we never see Woodman again, I think it’s a safe bet the opposite way, that a Skrull tried to SAY the Lizard-Woodman was a Skrull, but he was later found out and killed in a horrible way. Probably fed to Venom. I think the latter idea is far more likely.
Problem is, I’ve been poring over my copy of A:TI#19, and I can’t for the life of me find the death of Nonstop. The last time I see her is on page 15, and she seems alive and well. Perhaps you are thinking of Spinner, who dies a few pages later? At any rate, it seems the general consensus is that the Special takes places between issues 19 and 20 of the Initiative. Let me know if I’m missing something, in issue 19 there.
Derek Metaltron wrote:My challenge for you is to explain something that as a Marvel fan I really should know (but again, I don't read much X-Men so no hating!); how did Beast turn blue and furry, and when did it happen? Sure that's easy enough for you to answer.
Hey, Derek! This is an interesting question. Now, while your question, as stated, is not really about a continuity glitch, it is connected to one, so why not answer it! There are a few steps to the answer.
First, Beat became furry in AMAZING ADVENTURES #11. Hank is working on his own genetic samples, trying to find “the chemical cause of mutation.” He finds a fluid of some sort which he believes is the answer, that it can make any normal man into a mutant. Of course, he finds himself in a position where he feels he must drink it. It is this that makes him a furry ape-man.
But he was not blue. On the cover of the book, he is clearly colored gray, where on the inside, a strange purple hue is used for him… but the narration refers to him as having a “mane of silver-black hair.”**** Over the next few issues, he changes tint a tiny bit from odd purple to odd blue, but the issue where he becomes that rich blue we know him as is AMAZING ADVENTURES #15. The narration tells us that he is still changing, mutating further, and when Beast awakens, he cries out “My fur! It’s not GRAY any more! It’s BLACK!”
So, like various other “black” objects in comics over the years, it was colored with blue highlights, and eventually became mistaken for blue.***** As a result, I don’t know what was the first comic where they actually came out an referred to Beast as actually being blue to THEM, instead of just being PRINTED that way. That being said, if he can continue to mutate four issues after taking the formula, there is no reason we cannot suppose it was a slower transformation than he thought, and he made a slow transition from silver-black/gray through black to end as blue.
And that’s three, so I think I will leave it there, for now. Please, I welcome your comments on my continuity patches here. Think it was bogus? Think I am way wrong? Let me know. PLUS, I’m going to need three more “problems” to solve next time, so make sure to find some really tough ones for me, ok? The research is fun. I think posting them down below is the easiest way to get them to me.
Thanks so much, folks! Be seeing you!
Jordan D. White
* IRON MAN #7, collected in the AVENGERS: SUPREME JUSTICE TPB
** MS. MARVEL #31
*** Since then, I got out of high school, got three degrees, and began working for Marvel. Snap bracelets aren’t even cool anymore.
**** In totally weird 2nd person narrative. For the purposes of this story YOU are Beast!
***** Some people say the blue part of Spider-Man’s costume was meant to be black!
Secret Invasion My only wish: Don't solve every single death or strange action by saying one of the characters viewed was, in fact, a skrull.
Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2009-04-01 23:29:27
Is it me or 'The Eternals' are on stand-by ?
Posted by notapotatoe on 2009-04-02 06:53:05
Thanks and a New Question... First up I want to thank you for answering my Beast question, sounds like Beast went through the same issues that Hulk (originally Grey) and Galactus (who I believe was Red rather than Pink/Purple at first) did.
Anyway, a slightly harder question this... why is it that NYC seems to be perfectly alright in the wake of so many attacks? I mean in quick succession they've had two sets of heroes attacking each other, the attack by Ultron, half the city turning into Symbiotes, an enraged green monster and his Warbound turning NY Stadium into an arena, shortly followed by a nasty Earthquake and the Cryster Building going mad and setient, and most recently an invasion and fight against the Skrull Empire in Central Park! Why then after all that is NYC always so undamaged? Has Reed Richards given all the buildings the same abilities as the Baxter Building (to rebuild themselves) or what? Personally I feel for whoever the Mayor of NYC is, he's got a heck of a job to worry about, particularly with Norman Osborn leering over him now...
Posted by Derek Metaltron on 2009-04-03 06:16:03
Two questions really... I'm a little confused at what's going on with Ms.Marvel. Does what's currently happening in her book come before what's going on in New Avengers?
Shortly after the John Byrne reboot of Amazing Spider-Man, the series started using the origin from the Spider-Man: Chapter One book. Later, there was a story that dealt with some of the survivors of the explosion that was part of the new origin in Amazing Spider-Man. I don't quite remember what issue it was, but I do want to say that it involved someone going after these survivors. Since the reboot origin is largely ignored now, are these stories still in continuity? Since we now use the original origin, how do they work if they are?
Posted by challenger_15 on 2009-04-03 19:43:34
Continuity So, I don't know if it's really a continuity problem, but could someone please let me know how Thundra and a whole bunch of her people wind up in an encampment in the modern marvel universe, as seen in Secret Invasion?
As far as continuity goes, there seems to be a completely differnt Thundra and her world depicted in the current set of books, than in the established continuity. Previously, men were an oppressed minority, now they are a seperate creature. Originally the ware was between Thundra's world and a male dominate world, now it's between human men and human women on the same planet. Originally, Thundra expressed feelings for Ben Grimm, but was rebuked, now the notion of male female joining is treated with as much interest in Thundra's world as Female Hippopotomus joining.
I figure most of this is the general evolution in the language of comics (did gay people even exist in the Marvel Universe in the 60's?) and of course it's all explained by the idea that there are multiple future possibilities for Thundra that could cover all these possiblities. But still, it's a little bit weird not to even have an effort at an explaination.
Posted by FredII on 2009-04-13 14:21:50
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About this blog: Jordan loves reading comics, and he loves thinking about them way too much. Super Hero morality, quirks of continuity, and the daily grind of putting out funnybooks… it’s all fair game.
About the author: Jordan D. White is an assistant editor at Marvel. In his free time, he reads way too many comics. Seriously.
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