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Comics I Screwed Up pt 5
2007-07-12 13:38:09

HELLCAT #1

Rounding out our survey of comic books that I loused up in one way or another, we come to the HELLCAT limited series. This was a project that was embarked upon with the best of intentions, but which ultimately flew off the rails a little bit.

Originally, Kurt Busiek and I were looking for a concept for the 2000 AVENGERS ANNUAL, and at around this same time Steve Englehart had expressed some interest in wanting to do some more work for Marvel. I believe it was Kurt who hit upon the idea of doing a story that would run from the THUNDERBOLTS Annual to the AVENGERS annual and into a HELLCAT limited series, resurrecting Patsy Walker (who had been killed some years earlier in Warren Ellis' HELLSTORM--though there was an exchange that indicated that she might be coming back at some point). And since Steve had pretty much created Hellcat, assembling her out of of pieces, he was a natural to write the limited series. And artist Norm Breyfogle would draw the entire thing, to give it all a certain unity.

Kurt came up with a premise and a set-up to place Patsy in, and a concept that could drive her solo series. And then, we put all of the pieces in place in that AVENGERS Annual.

The first problem came when Steve, while he was interested in playing with the character, wasn't interested in the status quo that Kurt wanted to set her up in. So he used most of his first issue to write it all back out again--a pretty substantial waste of resources all things told. And I could have stopped him, but I wanted him to have a good Marvel experience, and to be comfortable with the story he was telling.

But then, by the time we got to the third issue, he came to a revelation that I thought was pretty wrong-headed, and which didn't have a whole lot to do with Hellcat directly--that Daimon Hellstrom, the Son of Satan (who had at one time been married to Patsy Walker, hence the connection) was not actually the son of Satan at all, but the son of Dormammu, by way of Satannish. I didn't really see the need for this revelation, or the benefit to doing this, but at this point Steve was committed to his story, and he didn't want to change where he was going. I told him that I would let him do what he wanted to do, but asked him to build me an "out" if we wanted to reverse this story in the future. Steve, understandably, didn't want to do this--and so, I let Steve have his way.

The response was pretty universal--virtually nobody liked the twist, and it's been ignored by everybody who's written the character ever since. Deservedly so, I think. So today's lesson is that sometimes you need to stick to your guns--not every idea that a creator comes up with is going to be a winner.

The choice to switch Hellcat's costume colors so the blue was predominant was mine--I thought, especially as a headliner, she'd look better that way. And virtually nobody liked this outfit, and it was discarded the next time the character made an appearance. So lesson two is that, as an editor, your ideas may not be any better than anybody else's, so be careful not to fall in love with your own inspiration.

More later.

Tom B

Thanks
This has been an interesting series to read. Thanks for doin' it. And I like Patsy Walker's blue costume just as much, if not better than the yellow version.

Posted by friskydingo on 2007-07-12 22:28:37

I liked the blue costume better
I think it just made for a better costume than the one that is yellow head to toe and I was sorry to see it replaced.

Wasn't this the series that also intorduced the "future eyes"? That was not a great idea.

Posted by IanZL on 2007-07-13 00:56:57

mmmnnrllbnnmmm
there is something to do with Hellcat (in blue ),Hellstrom, the Gargoyle, The Devil Slayer,
mmmmmnnrrllbnnnmmmnn.

Posted by notapotatoe on 2007-07-13 05:10:37

AND...
to Steven R.Stahl,
PLEASE,
notapotatoe@gmail.com,
it's for conspirating.

Posted by notapotatoe on 2007-07-13 05:54:27

I missed this mini completely. Probably just as well by the sounds of it. Which is a shame as I just re-read Hellcat's intro in Avengers and I love her character.

Posted by bomaya on 2007-07-13 09:09:39

Basis for a Retcon
I read HELLCAT #1 and #2 years after they came out. The amount of recapitulation in #1 did seem excessive. I’ve never seen the third issue, so I can’t comment on the retcon of Hellstrom’s parentage thoroughly. The philosophical basis for the retcon, though, might have been the idea that in metaphysical terms, Evil is a single entity with multiple, linked identities, making Satan and Mephisto, for example, simply two aspects of one entity. Englehart had Hellstrom refer to the concept in WEST COAST AVENGERS #14; ironically, Hellstrom referred to Satannish as one of the aspects.

So, making Hellstrom the son of Dormammu, via Satannish, might have made more sense to Englehart on a philosophical level than being the son of universal Evil did. As the basis for a retcon, though, that’s no more justified than objecting to Wanda’s and Vizh’s kids on religious grounds is. Months ago, I had an online encounter with a fan who adamantly insisted that Wanda’s and Vizh’s kids *couldn’t* have had souls of their own, because of the way they were conceived. It didn’t matter that Wanda’s eggs were involved, it didn’t matter that Englehart provided a sound, logical framework for the conceptions. The basis for the twins conflicted with his personal religious beliefs, and that was that. However, judging the soundness of a fantasy work’s internal framework strictly on the basis of one’s personal religious beliefs doesn’t make sense. The story wasn’t written for one specific person to read.

If I see HELLCAT #3, I’ll pick it up so that I can examine the retcon issue more closely, but there’s evidently no hurry.

SRS

Posted by Steven R. Stahl on 2007-07-13 12:09:04

well
hellcat is the dumbest name ever,period.

Posted by tarhaun on 2007-07-13 14:52:17

hellcat limited series
The only mistake I can see being made is thinking of Hellcat as a viable character to carry her own series.

Posted by frankzappa on 2007-07-14 13:56:41

Typos and Mess
Dear Mr.Brevoort,
I would like to inform you about the typos in the Marvel Encyclopdedia. An example would be Apocalypse, his weight says 7 ft,variable or the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, in the big picture numbered 1-6 it says Black Tom Cassidy for number 1 but in the picture the number 1 is on Nightcrawler.Speaking of mistakes in the tpb for Phoenix:Endsong in number 4 of the tpb I think it supposed to show both sides of the conversation, but when it does the words are different and Storm fires lightning at the Shi'ar ship, but one of the dudes says Phoenix fused all the guns. I don't know if that was intentional and I'm just not getting the comic or if that was a messup.

Sincerely,
Brandon Yue (aka Psi-Lord)

Posted by Psi-Kid on 2007-07-16 23:52:33

This Blog
I agree with Mr. Bendis- this is a very fun part of the blog. Seeing where things went wrong helps me understand that not only is nobody perfect, but that some of the things that happen in comics that frustrate me are sometimes well intentioned screw ups. This makes it easier to accept them.

The humility of writing such a blog, shows me that you are the right kind of editor- someone who is willing to accept past msitakes and learn from them.

Excelsior, Mr. Brevoort!

Posted by Luke Fleeman on 2007-07-19 14:05:43

Blue is cool.
I loved the new costume. And Tom's rendition of Patsy is the best I've seen. The mini is worth having for the art alone. Who wears yellow spandex? Sentry who most think is a bore, and Wolverine (whom I think looks better back in his brown).

Glad to see Patsy will be in MCP, blue spandex or no.

Posted by Deadpond on 2007-09-10 17:47:14

Whoops.
I meant Norm Breyfogyle, not Tom regarding the art. But Tom, don't be sorry about the costume, it was better looking. I blame Erik Larson for changing it back in The Defenders reboot.

Posted by Deadpond on 2007-09-10 17:50:08

Hellcat
Nice of you to take the "blame" for the Hellcat costume change, Tom, but that change was definitely my idea, which I originated and pushed for (and you subsequently okayed), and my design was a much better design than the original one. Everyone, just compare them side by side, and make your own decisions; it's like comparing the classic, dorky, original Robin costume to the new versions. Of course, Tom, you were the editor, and you okayed my idea, so I guess you must take ultimate responsibility.

The only reason I can conceive of why some fans might prefer the original comparatively lousy costume design is due to their nostalgia for the past.

Englehart being difficult as the writer of the series was something of which I wasn't aware.

I have one question: if there was no reason to dislike my art (and I tconsider my art on that mini-series to be one of my better efforts), why hasn't Marvel shown any interest in hiring me since? I've approached them many times since Hellcat and they've always turned me down.

Posted by Norm Breyfogle on 2007-09-14 00:01:24

testing
this is a test

Posted by Norm Breyfogle on 2007-09-15 19:54:13

testing
Just for anyone coming in late: my "this is a test" post was sent to see if there was something wrong with my 'net connection. Sorry for any confusion.

I really loved drawing Hellcat. There's tons of other Marvel characters I'd be happy to contribute to, as well. =)

Posted by Norm Breyfogle on 2007-09-27 11:13:44

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