For recent(ish) stuff

1) Bendis and Maleev on Daredevil.
2) Runaways vol. 1.

This is a great idea, Mister B, well played Sir!

Posted by Skippa on 2008-02-23 13:41:00
sticking with new stuff...

New X-Men by Grant Morrison. The epic battle of the X-Men vs. Sublime over 40 issues, with changes that have actually lasted (except, well, Magneto).

Loki by Robert Rodi - it may not "count" as part of marvel continuity, but few mini-series have had the power and pathos of this one.



Posted by stuckinazkaban on 2008-02-23 14:19:18
What a great post. Mind you, I think you're being overly optimistic...I don't reckon there'll be a single story left standing.

So here we go...
1) Born Again
2) Target: 2006 (or is that cheating a bit?....does Marvel UK (R.I.P.) count?)

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-02-23 14:34:11
Fantastic!
Well, I can't imagine any stories being more "classic" than these
1. Original FF Galactus story. (first Watcher, Silver Surfer, Galactus)
2. Spider-Man Origin (remade in every single retelling of Spider-Man except for the crappy MTV series without significant variation. The story MADE Spider-Man.)

I am sorry cjmcaree, but I have to object to Target:2006. I don't even know what that is.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-23 14:58:10
Way too many to pick from...
how the hell can i choose just two? alright, fine...

1. The Dark Phoenix Saga
2. Brubaker/Epting Captain America

Posted by cryhavok01 on 2008-02-23 15:17:46
I have to second the notion of Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. Absolutely the best Marvel comics produced under Joe Q.

As for the second choice, I'm going single issue- Peter David's Hulk: The End. Amazingly good story.

Posted by wishlish on 2008-02-23 15:18:21
That's an easy one! (or two)
1. Walt Simonson's Thor - I'll go with issue 362 as my favorite solo issue of the series.
2. Brubaker and Epting's Captain America - Until Bucky, the king of the Mary Sues, made the series a future punchline of a joke...

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-02-23 15:24:00
Okay, so far we have...
1) Bendis and Maleev on Daredevil.
2) Runaways vol. 1.
3) New X-Men by Grant Morrison
4) Loki by Robert Rodi (to which I'd like to object, because it's just too recent to be considered a "classic". Give it time. We can still talk about this in two years.)
4) Born Again
5) Original FF Galactus story
6) Spider-Man Origin (by which I think you mean Amazing Fantasy #15)
7) Dark Phoenix Saga
8) Brubaker/Epting Captain America
9) Hulk: The End.
10) Simonson's Thor.

My two nominations are Ultron Unlimited and the Proteus Saga. Would it be okay if we merge the latter with 7 into the Claremont/Byrne X-Men? That way, we would automatically include the Hellfire Club and Days of Future Past.

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-02-23 18:02:45
I object to Bendis/Maleev Daredevil and Rodi's Loki. They're good comics but not quite classics.

Posted by CylverSaber on 2008-02-23 19:09:14
Second Attempt
No problem bigdaddyhub2.
Its probably the Transformers UK story which justifiably helped make Simon Furman's rep as the go-to-guy for all things robotic. And not many 23 year old stories hold up as well to the passing of time!

Next nomination would be Roy Thomas and BWS on Conan.

And I'm really sorry to whoever nominated it but while I really do like it as a story, there are just too many events and characterizations coming out of left field for Morrison's X-men to be a classic. No evil twins please!

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-02-23 19:36:55
Uncanny X-Men: Days of Future Past
X-Men God Loves Man Kills


Posted by Rachel__Summers on 2008-02-23 20:15:40
New X-Men: E Is For Extinction
Ultimates: Super-Human

These are the two stories that got me back into comics after a number of years away and I've never looked backed since. There are probably better choices than those but others will pick them

Posted by comicglen on 2008-02-23 20:31:50
My two
I have a strong feeling no one's going to agree with me on these, but:

1. Spider-Man vs. Wolverine #1 (Bring back Jim Owsley to the MU already!)
2. Judd Winick's initial run on Exiles.

Posted by Josef Karven on 2008-02-23 21:23:24
if somone on now

is toxin good or bad

Posted by lukeadam on 2008-02-23 21:55:13
Only 2 ?
I agree with everyone on Morrison's New XMen run. It along with the revitalization of XForce got me back into comics after the nadir that was the early 90's. I swore I'd never buy another comic again.

Speaking of early 90's comics, I worked my teenage tail off to afford every issue of THE AGE OF APOCALYPSE. That story was so fun. I vote for it.

Posted by mickel5555 on 2008-02-23 22:42:35
Staying relatively recent for my two:

1. Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo on Fantastic Four

2. Bendis and Bagley on Ultimate Spider-man.

Posted by Matthan on 2008-02-23 23:07:32
2 classics
1. Uncanny X-men 201 - As an artist, this is a great example of clean, strong, straitforward storytelling at it's best, less flash than substance. Take away all of the long-winded Chris Clairmont dialogue and exposition and the story still shines through. Alot of pencilers can take a lesson from Rick Leonardi on this one, and if they did, today's comics would be better for it.
2. David Mack's run on Daredevil - What a great blend of words and pictures.

Posted by sammassey on 2008-02-23 23:28:05
Everybody, I am going to pull a PseudoSherlock and remind everyone of the groundrules. Don't nominate RUNS, nominate a STORY. Don't say (for instance) JMS' run on Spiderman, say "Sins Past". (not a real nomination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-24 00:41:57
Crisis on Infinite Earths
Infinite Crisis


that's what you get for deleting my other post.

Posted by Rawnzilla on 2008-02-24 02:31:45
Veto Grant Morrison

1. Marvels by Kurt Busiek
2. Dark Phoenix Saga

Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-24 02:34:07
1) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web;
2) J. M. DeMatteis' 'Kraven's Last Hunt', Amazing Spider-Man;
3) Grant Morrison's 'Riot at Xavier's', New X-Men;
4) 'Wolverine: Origin';
5) '1602'
6) JMS' 'Doomed Affairs', Amazing Spider-Man;
7) 'Hulk: The End';
8) Any and all of Warren Ellis' 'Nexwtave: Agents of H.A.T.E';
9) Any and all of Warren Ellis' 'Thunderbolts';
10) Daredevil: Guardian Devil.



Posted by The Gecko on 2008-02-24 03:21:17
And...having re-read the rules, my official nominations are 1) and 9) of my above post.

Posted by The Gecko on 2008-02-24 03:22:14
New X-Men isn't a classic, it's just typical Grant Morrison. If you like Grant Morrison you'll like it, I guess. But if (like me) you don't like Grant Morrison, it's totally worthless. The plot is boring, the art is ugly. I tried reading it over and over because so many people praised it, but each time I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't any good. So scratch that.

1. The Master Planner storyline in Amazing Spider-Man #31-33. I don't think anyone who's read it could disagree that it's a classic.

2. Planet Hulk. An epic story which gets deeper the more times you read it. The way Hulk is compared and contrasted with Miek is very compelling, and delves into the difference between a hero and a monster. Even without looking at WWH at all, it's one of the best stories Marvel's ever released.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-24 04:22:49
my choice
1)secret wars


Posted by carnage-fanatic on 2008-02-24 04:46:42
my choice
1)secret wars,it saw the first appearance of the symbiote and it rocks
2)infinity gauntlet

Posted by carnage-fanatic on 2008-02-24 04:47:47
We're being asked to nominate stories rather than runs, right? So I think we should strike the all-encompassing runs from the list and pick a story arc from each to replace it. For that reason I'd like to re-nominate the Hellfire-Phoenix story (in lieu of Claremont and Byrne) and "Authoritative Action" (in lieu of Waid and Wieringo, despite it ironically being drawn by someone else).

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-02-24 06:23:03
My votes... Of Doom!
1. Grant Morrisons New X-Men when "Xorn" attacked New York. I'm sorry that I can't remember the name of the arc in particular right now... I should be ashamed. :(

2. Ultimates 2: Liberators. This was the best of the Ultimates.

Posted by fetty_pet on 2008-02-24 08:32:56
world stopped after that....
1) the INFERNO cross-over ( including X-Men, Daredevil ...)
2) Walter and Louise Simonson' X-Factor' first appearance of Apocalypse.


Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-02-24 09:54:16
Come on, people, there is way too much agreement here! Shoot some things down!

I think I would shoot down the Conan work, because he's not a Marvel character, really. And I think I would shoot down Ultron Unlimited because I don't know what it is, and the Proteus Saga because there are much better parts to the Claremont/Byrne run (sorry Michael). I also would take out the Thousand... not because it's not good, but because it's a bit obscure, I doubt many people know it. Also, David Mack's run on Daredevil, sadly, because... well, I like Bendis's run more, and it's already been taken off the list.

So far as I can tell, this is the current list
(leaving out things struck down and "full runs"):

1)Born Again
2) Original FF Galactus story
3) Spider-Man Origin
4) Dark Phoenix Saga
5) Hulk: The End.
6) Days of Future Past
7) God Loves, Man Kills
8) Ultimates: Super-Human
9) Spider-Man vs. Wolverine
10) Age of Apocalypse
11) Uncanny X-Men 201
12) Marvels
13) Warren Ellis's Thunderbolts (still short enough to count, I would say)
14) The Master Planner story from ASM
15)Planet Hulk
16) Infinity Gauntlet
17) FF: Authoritative Action
18) Ultimates 2: Liberators
19) Secret Wars (I am so tempted to take this out... anyone?)

To this, I will add
20) Kraven's Last Hunt
21) Inferno


Posted by Jordan D. White on 2008-02-24 10:19:44
The current list:
I want to object against Ellis' Thunderbolts (how can it be a classic if it's not even over yet?), Brubaker's Cap (same reason), Toxin (was that even a nomination?), Planet Hulk (much too recent) and Ultimates 2: Liberators (too recent, and we already have Superhuman on the list).
That leaves us with a Top 25.

1) Runaways vol. 1.
2) Born Again
3) Original FF Galactus story
4) Amazing Fantasy #15
5) Dark Phoenix Saga
6) Hulk: The End.
7) Thor, Walt Simonson.
8) Ultron Unlimited
9) Proteus
10) Conan, Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor Smith
11) Days of Future Past
12) God Loves, Man Kills
13) Ultimates: Super-Human
14) Spider-Man vs Wolverine
15) Exiles, Judd Winick
16) Age of Apocalypse
17) Fantastic Four, Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo
18) Ultimate Spider-Man, Brian Bendis and Mark Bagley
19) Uncanny X-Men #201
20) Daredevil, David Mack
21) Marvels
22) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web
23) Master Planner Storyline, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
24) Secret Wars
25) Infinity Gauntlet

Now we have to cut that down to a Top Ten.

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-02-24 10:24:57
Oops, you were faster.
Okay, let's combine those two lists:

1)Born Again
2) Original FF Galactus story
3) Amazing Fanasy #15
4) Dark Phoenix Saga
5) Hulk: The End.
6) Days of Future Past
7) God Loves, Man Kills
8) Ultimates: Super-Human
9) Spider-Man vs. Wolverine
10) Age of Apocalypse
11) Uncanny X-Men 201
12) Marvels
13) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web
14) Master Planner Storyline, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
15)Planet Hulk
16) Infinity Gauntlet
17) FF: Authoritative Action
18) Secret Wars (I am so tempted to take this out... anyone?)
29) Kraven's Last Hunt
20) Inferno

P.S.: Ultron Unlimited was one of the highlights of the Busiek/Perez Avengers. Remember "Ultron. We Would Have Words With Thee"?

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-02-24 10:29:36
photo albums
do someone feel a little regressing or I am the only one ?
you people have to be occupied ?
I'd like at last know if something had been deducted, considered from the last thema before switching to something else.

twisted yours,


Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-02-24 11:28:32
My favorite plots
1). Chris Claremont's run of the Uncanny X-Men. Do I really need to explain it? It's simply the best. But do I have to stick to one plot? Fine... Dark Phoenix saga. The height of the X-Men at their prime.
2). Civil War. It's what got me back into comics.


Posted by DRock1 on 2008-02-24 11:51:25
my 2
Silver Surfer Reqiuem (how do you spell it?)
Ultimates 2


Posted by DeathSentence on 2008-02-24 12:16:01
Lee, Kirby and Gerber
I object to Civil War and nominate:

1) Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's 'The Galactus Trilogy'
2) Howard the Duck's run for President, by Steve Gerber

Posted by Ovid on 2008-02-24 12:20:44
Don Veto Corleone!
OK, I'm gonna be the nasty person who helps whittle down the list. Apologies to all concerned, but I'm vetoing all the following:

1) Hulk: The End
cause I just didn't like any of the "The End," stories, although this was by far the best of a bad lot.
2) Days of Future Past
Great concept, but coming just after the epic Dark Phoenix, a two issue story just feels a bit sparse.
3)Ultimates 2/ Ultimates Superhuman.
Fantastic fun, and really looking forward to these guys on the FF but just doesn't have the re-readability of other stories on the list
4)Spider-man vs Wolverine
Just don't like it in any way, shape or from.
5) Age of Apocalypse.
Not bad as giant crossovers go, but just pretty much hits the reset button at the end, with a few notable exceptions: Dark Beast etc.
6) Uncanny X-men #201
If we are going for single stories with great art try #205 of the same comic. Way, way better.
7) Planet Hulk
Nice concept, moderately well executed, but its been done before with the same character.
8) Infinity Gauntlet
and
9) Secret Wars
Big Overblown Battles on the Edge of the Universe (say wasn't that the title of one of the chapters?)
10) Inferno
Although, as a red blooded male, I'm tempted to leave this one in just for the Silvestri art!
11) Civil War
Love the concept. Love the fact that we have a crossover with heroes fighting each other for a real reason rather than a misunderstanding, and I particularly like that we finally have a crossover that has long-lasting repercussions in the MU, but the story sagged a bit towards the end, and it just doesn't meet my definition of classic.

Apologies to all concerned.

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-02-24 12:52:35
Okay, that leaves us with...
1)Born Again
2) Original FF Galactus story
3) Amazing Fanasy #15
4) Dark Phoenix Saga
5) God Loves, Man Kills
6) Marvels
7) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web
8) Master Planner Storyline, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
9) Kraven's Last Hunt
10) Howard the Duck's run for President, by Steve Gerber

I object against Silver Surfer Requiem. Like Loki, Ellisbolts and Brubaker's Cap, it's just too recent.

And I object against Authoritative Action. Mainly because "Hereafter" was better. Thinking about it,

11) Fantastic Four: Hereafter, Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo.

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-02-24 13:15:50
Steve Gerber just died so like with every known person it is popular to over hype everything they did, i veto Howard the Duck's run for President, Howard the duck is a terrible character who i dont think anyone would remember if it werent for the movie.

I also veto Waids FF run, I dont like the fact that Waid managed to force his way back into a comic he left in a huff, and thereby forced a far superior creative team to be moved to a minor comic, also the story and art really werent anything special


Posted by Rain on 2008-02-24 13:33:41
1) AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #21. This issue really sums up what Marvel comics are about to me. A fantastic Ditko/Lee Spidey/Torch story that beautifully plays up the differences between the two characters.
2) FF #51 - "This Man, This Monster". Hadn't been mentioned yet and I felt it needed to be included. A great, human story after the bombast of the Galactus trilogy. Chock-full of action AND characterization in one issue! It can be done!

Posted by skagandboneman on 2008-02-24 13:51:56
Ok so the last list posted was incorrect. Runaways Vol. 1 was taken off the list but it was never struck down. Its still there (and definitely deserves to be.) Also "Coming of the Thousand" was stricken from the list. if you're gonna do updated lists make sure that they're right.

hmmm its tough. Most of my 'classics' favorites are already up there. We are missing Neil Gaiman's 1602. Just a brilliant book. Hmm... Marvel's is already up there so i'm not sure what to put out now. I'll go with a more recent classic, Bendis' Ultiamte Clone Saga. I'm sure it'll get shot down but its just a great story and I think it deserves a little recognition. saying a book is too recent is stupid. Silver Surfer Requiem was hailed by pretty much every comic critic in the biz. Ultimates is anything but "unreadable" and pretty much redefined how a super hero book should be done in my mind.

I'm just glad that god loves man kills is up there along with marvels and kraven's last hunt.

I was gonna put up X-factor issue 13 (current run) but I figured it'd get shot down cuz not enough people read that series. It was a brilliant issue involving every character going to therapy with Doc sampson. Lead to some great characterization, some hilarious comedic moments, and the oddest love traingle of all time. I already used my two up though, so i'll leave that one for someone else (althogh it won't happen.)



Posted by Anson17 on 2008-02-24 13:59:16
objection, your honor
I re-read Kraven's Last Hunt last night, and as much as I liked it, I admitted that it was a good story but not a great story. In my opinion, a CLASSIC story is a story that you would have to tell an initiate to the MU in order for them to understand what is going on. Kraven's Last Hunt doesn't qualify for that. Instead, I would like to replace it with Avengers 4, the return of Captain America. That is classic.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-24 14:00:49
the greatest storyline
Im glad to see some people actually remember good story arcs from years past and not just the junk that comics have become over the past 10 to 15 years. I totally agree with the carly FF galactus and so I have only one to add.

1.) Amazing spiderman 238-289, who is the hobgoblin

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-24 14:14:38
1. Bendis/Bagley Clone Saga
2. Runaways Vol. 1

Posted by Skullboy25 on 2008-02-24 14:27:21
Great Storylines not yet mentioned
1) Issue 13 of Ultimate Spider-Man, a great solo issue and the best Ultimate Marvel Comic single issue yet

2) Original Wolverine Mini Series by Claremont and Miller. This series is arguably Claremont's best work on a solo character and defined Wolverine.

I would like to add that I am sad to see Infinity Gauntlet cut from the list, especially seeing that #4 (the "big battle" issue) was one of the reasons it was cut. #4 had one of the best, if not the best, Captain America moments in comics when he stood up to Thanos with everyone dead/maimed/lost in time and gave Thanos one good punch.

Posted by Otherguy676 on 2008-02-24 14:36:31
me too Otherguy
I feel ya, yo. Also, Secret War getting cut was a tad harsh. It is a better story than it is a completed work, so I guess I understand. But without Secret War, you can't tell the Venom story.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-24 15:03:42
Iron man: Demon in a Bottle
The Avengers: The Korvac Saga

Posted by Tom Reed on 2008-02-24 15:15:48
I think the forum ate my post, anyway i veto

Howard the Duck's run for President, by Steve Gerber : i am pretty sure that once people get over Gerbs death they will stop pretending that Howard the Duck was anything but a terrible character

&

Fantastic Four: Hereafter, Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo : The writing and art were average at best, and Waids actions around that time annoy me greatly

Posted by Rain on 2008-02-24 15:34:45
Avengers: Under Siege: The Masters of Evil invading Avengers Mansion by Stern and Buscema.
Thunderbolts #1: The revelation that the T-Bolts were the Masters of Evil in disguise is the greatest final page to a comic in the history of the medium.

Posted by Stalzer2002 on 2008-02-24 15:45:27
Ultimates: Superhuman
Last Iron Fist Story

Posted by mace randu on 2008-02-24 16:16:24
Conan gone! Boo!
Hadn't noticed The BWS/Thomas Conan had been vetoed so for my second nomination I'd like to put forward Elektra: Assassin. My head still hurts every time I read the first few chapters...in a good way!

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-02-24 16:29:56
Well, I'm going to be the difficult guy here, thus proving the theory of the thread.

I'd like to veto the original Galactus trilogy and the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Let me say that I completely agree that these stories have a had a massive influence and in that sense can be considered classic, the mission statement of the thread is to find:
"ten classic Marvel stories in the response thread to this post that we, as a whole, can agree were GENUINELY GOOD."

And while I admit that there were strong ideas at play in the Galactus story, it can from (the great) Stan Lee at a time when he was scripting something like ten books a month. And while the plot is really innovative and imaginative, Lee's unbelievable workload shows in the dialogue. It's classic one-dimensional, powers-explanatory scripting. Pretty standard for the time, but hardly something I can give a modern, non-comics fan to get them hooked.

The Dark Phoenix Saga always struck me as a bit overrated. Not bad, certainly, but not exactly mind-blowingly original either. A character gets corrupted by her power and had to struggle for redemption. Good, but again, does it really, in its original form, hold up to non-fans? To me, a really GOOD classic should be something that I can give to a total stranger, a non-fan, and have them enjoy it. Also, it doesn't help that the story may have single-handedly destroyed the Jean Gray character by inspiring a million retreads.

So, that said, here are my nominations, which I fully expect to be savaged in revenge. :)

Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme mini.
X-factor 87, where Doc Samson analyzes the team







Posted by Muldrate on 2008-02-24 16:42:51
X-MEN #186 "Lifedeath"
NEW MUTANTS #45 (death of Larry Brodie, "All the rest are just labels.")
NEW MUTANTS Demon Bear Saga
X-MEN Brood Saga

Alan Davis' EXCALIBUR (42-67)


Posted by Gentleman Jack on 2008-02-24 17:20:05
A lot of things are being veto so i may be repeating something that has already been but

1. 'Riot at Xaviers', Grant Morrison, New X-Men
2. Infinity Gauntlet

Posted by djesterus on 2008-02-24 18:33:43
Thinking...
Here's my replacement for the Dark Phoenix Saga.

The first issues. Seriously, the #1's, they should be able to count as one option, so one of the classics should, naturally I think, be the #1's, the first issues, which in my reasoning includes amazing fantasy #15 and that sort of thing.
Fatal Attractions: X-Men #25, Wolverine having his skeleton ripped out.

(Solely because Muldrate's points could technically apply to everything ever written. And I completely disagree that a GOOD classic should be something that I can give to a total stranger, a non-fan, and have them enjoy it.) I think the greatness of the ENTIRE Phoenix Saga if not all of the stories from the past, is that to an X-Men reader, those stories, especially that one, are so historic that they are literally legendary, and feel special to read.
I'm sure that the other series have stories from the past like that too.

Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-24 19:07:42
Updated list.
Hey, Anson.
Jordan took Runaways vol. 1 off the list because it's a run, not a single story. If you want Runaways to be represented in this list, pick one of the four stories that made up that run: Pride and Joy, Teenage Wasteland (Topher), Lost and Found (Cloak & Dagger) and The Good Die Young. We could argue that those four stories formed one huge storyarc, but once a pick is taken off the list, it's gone.
Ennis' Tangled Web story was on my list (#7, to be exact). And I shot down Silver Surfer Requiem, because a great story isn't automatically what I consider a "classic". To make the step from "great story" to "classic", you need time. If the story still holds up a year, two years, ten years from now, then you can call it a classic. Which is why I object to the Last Iron Fist story, by the way. Two years from now, I probably wouldn't. And I object to the Brood Saga, since I always thought it was more or less just an Alien ripoff. And it started the trend of moving Wolverine's healing factor into "immortal" territory. Soo... that leaves us with:

1) Born Again
2) Amazing Fanasy #15
3) God Loves, Man Kills
4) Marvels
5) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web
6) Master Planner Storyline, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
7) AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #21.
8) FF #51 - "This Man, This Monster"
9) 1602
10) Ultimate Clone Saga
11) Avengers #4 (vol. 1)
12) Amazing spiderman 238-289, who is the hobgoblin
13) Ultimate Spider-Man #13
14) Original Wolverine Mini Series by Claremont and Miller
15) Iron man: Demon in a Bottle
16) The Avengers: The Korvac Saga
17) Avengers: Under Siege
18) Thunderbolts #1
19) Elektra: Assassin
20) Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme mini.
21) X-factor 87, where Doc Samson analyzes the team
22) X-MEN #186 "Lifedeath"
23) NEW MUTANTS #45
24) NEW MUTANTS Demon Bear Saga
25) Alan Davis' EXCALIBUR (42-67)

Two new suggestions, because my previous ones were vetoed:
26) What If #105 (first Spider-Girl)
27) Marvel Boy #1-6, Grant Morrison and JG Jones.

And I haven't read them yet, so I'll have to ask: Is Davis' Excalibur really just one story? Is Amazing spiderman 238-289?

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-02-24 19:30:32
Thomas, which first issues do you mean? X-Men #1? Amazing Fantasy 15 is already on the list. But most of the other #1 issues (Fantastic Four, X-Men, Avengers, Iron Man) are not great stories themselves, they're mostly exposition. Introducing the characters, founding the team, going through the motions. Usually it's only after that when the great stories start. With the exception of Amazing Fantasy #15, I'll give you that.

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-02-24 19:33:54
good point... The number 1's should be respected though. Still think the 90s X-Men series had some really good stories during the first couple of years. If it needs to be a RECOMMENDABLE non-fan classic that is.

Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-24 20:22:04
I knocked out the Thousand, as being a little too obscure.

Tell you what- Alan Davis's Excalibur is too much, I'd say. Let's cut it down to 42-50, his opening Arc, which pretty much justifies the team's existance up to that point. Good stuff.

And, I am sure this will get knocked out, just like my last two, but I love Punisher: The End. Probably my favourite single issue of the last 5 years.

Posted by Jordan D. White on 2008-02-24 20:26:14
Oh, and... number ones? No, that's too loose. That would probably be hundreds of issues.

Posted by Jordan D. White on 2008-02-24 20:27:37
I wish I could think of new classis stories
Okay I say ditch the following books and I havent read some of these storylines which makes me a little bias, but if I really thought they were classic I would read them.

so ditch

1) Born Again
4) Marvels - The art is what made this book
5) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web, I never even heard of this story before
6) Master Planner Storyline, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
7) AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #21.
19) Elektra: Assassin
20) Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme mini.
23) NEW MUTANTS #45
25) Alan Davis' EXCALIBUR (42-67)

Face it most people dont even know what happened in the above books.

I recommend Inifnity Gauntlet, and The first Kree Skrull War


Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-24 21:01:14
I VETO MULDRATE
In the words of Keith Richards..."Muldrate you ignorant slut..."
(if you don't get this reference, don't worry about it. It is funny, not insulting I promise!!!!)

I disagree with you, but that is the point of this exercise.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-24 21:18:28
I am striking from the list:

Ultimate Clone Saga
Ultimate Spider-Man #13

Not only was I not really impressed by these, they are not even approaching what I would consider to be 'classic.'

Posted by Vastion on 2008-02-24 21:55:50
Heh,
I do get the joke bigdaddyhub2! And thanks to everyone for disagreeing with me, and more importantly, for being civil about it. Excellent.

And to quickly clarify, I don't mean disrespect to the stories I bumped, and I do think they're classic in the sense that I mentioned. But I think that they're getting this legendary, "untouchable" status because of their age and broad sweeping influenence that may not be validated by their sheer quailty alone. But again, hey, that's we're all beautiful snowflakes of individuality, right?

Posted by Muldrate on 2008-02-24 22:30:32
decided to add a 2nd
Of course amazing spiderman 238-289 had multiple stories, but the constant backstory of who the hobgoblin really was took place throughout and finally concluded with spiderman vs wolverine and amazing 289. Then of course many years later in the mini hobgoblin lives it turned out that rodrick kingsley( I believe that was his name lol) was the real hobgoblin all along and not ned leeds. Anyways someone mentioned a what if book, a series I wish marvel would really bring back, and make it good, not these lousy one shots they've been doing the past few years. (what if annihilation was pretty good though) Anyways that was such a good series you could argue for almost anyone of them, but my 2 favorites were what if venom possessed the punisher (or something like that) and what if silver surfer possessed the infinity gauntlet. Since I can only choose one, it will be

2.) what if venom possessed the punisher (dont remember the acutal #)

Thats a week choice and shouldnt be in the top 10 but I figured it would be good fodder for a veto.

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-24 23:28:50
mre2u
I realize the rules state that you can veto any story for any reason you like but are you really going to chop a dozen stories that you may or may not have read without any real explanation? IMHO Born Again is one of the few Marvel superhero stories that is just so well written and drawn, and self-contained enough, that I hand it to even non-comic readers. Marvels is a little precious but there are plenty of jaw-dropping moments that have everything to do with the writing.

I'm adding:

1) Earth X: I wish this was accepted as marvel canon. The story is the thread that links all the early MU mythology.
2) Uncanny X-Men #205: Wolverine and Katie Powers vs. Lady Deathstrike and The Reavers. With bloody widescreen art by Barry Windsor Smith this reads like a Wolverine movie they never made.

I veto Infinity Gauntlet because of its corny comic book posturing and the Ron Lim art makes everyone look wimpy with alien eyes. Never liked it.

Posted by hamgravy on 2008-02-25 00:39:55
Ennis's Punisher?
There's been some off-the-wall choices, but I don't think I've seen anyone mention these:

1) Punisher: Welcome Back, Frank
2) Punisher: The Slavers

As far as the Morrison run on X-Men goes, I think it had the opposite effect on me that it had on others. I remember, at the time, there was the usual complaint of "There are too many X-Men not being used", and I liked a lot of the underutilized characters. Then, Morrison comes along, creates about 1.2 million other mutants (I may be rounding up a bit) that I didn't really care about, and the same X-Men that were ignored before were STILL ignored.

Anyway, here are some other books that would look good on your list:

* Daredevil: Man Without Fear (Miller/JR Jr.)
* Squadron Supreme (the original Gruenwald series, I can't BELIEVE no one's mentioned it...)
* Punisher: Circle of Blood
* Astonishing X-Men (the first arc with the return of Colossus)

I'm sure I'll think of others...

Posted by PAJohnDoe78 on 2008-02-25 01:08:52
Whoops...
OK, I guess you're only supposed to suggest 2 at a time, so my first 2 still stand:

Punisher: Welcome Back, Frank
Punisher: The Slavers

Hmmmm,maybe people will get talking about the others though....

Posted by PAJohnDoe78 on 2008-02-25 01:10:18
I wish I could think of new classis stories
Okay I say ditch the following books and I havent read some of these storylines which makes me a little bias, but if I really thought they were classic I would read them.

so ditch

1) Born Again
4) Marvels - The art is what made this book
5) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web, I never even heard of this story before
6) Master Planner Storyline, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
7) AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #21.
19) Elektra: Assassin
20) Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme mini.
23) NEW MUTANTS #45
25) Alan Davis' EXCALIBUR (42-67)

Face it most people dont even know what happened in the above books.

I recommend Inifnity Gauntlet, and The first Kree Skrull War


Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 03:38:46
My classics (purely subjective)
Alan Davis' Excalibur run (both times - is that being cheeky?)
Runaways Vol 1

Posted by NewChad on 2008-02-25 03:59:51
Ladies and Gentlemen: Your Runners and Riders
So, taking it from the very start of this list, here, I think, is everything nominated, with veto before any story which has already been vetoed:

Anyone who gave more than two nominations at once got ignored cause I didn’t want to just pick two at random! So, if you fall into this category….renominate!


Veto 1) Bendis and Maleev on Daredevil
2) Runaways Vol 1
Veto 3) Morrison’s New X-men including New X-Men: E Is For Extinction
Veto 4) Loki
Veto 5) Born Again
Veto 6) Target: 2006
Veto 7) Original Galactus Story/Trilogy
8) Amazing Fantasy #15
Veto 9) The Dark Phoenix Saga
Veto 10) Brubaker/Epting Captain America
Veto 11) Peter David's Hulk: The End
12) Walt Simonson's Thor
Veto 13) Ultron Unlimited
Veto 14) Proteus Saga
Veto 15) Roy Thomas and BWS on Conan
Veto 16) Uncanny X-Men: Days of Future Past
17) X-Men God Loves Man Kills
Veto 18) Ultimates/Ultimates2 and all nominated story arcs
Veto 19) Spider-Man vs. Wolverine #1
20) Judd Winick's initial run on Exiles
Veto 21) Age of Apocalypse
Veto 22) Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo on Fantastic Four including Authoritative Action, Hereafter
23) Bendis and Bagley on Ultimate Spider-man
Veto 24) Uncanny X-men 201
Veto 25) David Mack's run on Daredevil
Veto 26) Marvels by Kurt Busiek
Veto 27) Garth Ennis' 'Coming of the Thousand', Spider-Man's Tangled Web
Veto 28) Any and all of Warren Ellis' 'Thunderbolts'
Veto 29) The Master Planner storyline in Amazing Spider-Man #31-33
Veto 30) Planet Hulk
Veto 31) secret wars
Veto 32) Infinity Gauntlet
Veto 33) Inferno
34) Walter and Louise Simonson' X-Factor' first appearance of Apocalypse.
Veto 35) Kraven’s Last Hunt
Veto 36) Civil War
Veto 37) Silver Surfer Requiem
Veto 38) Howard the Duck's run for President, by Steve Gerber
Veto 39) AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #21
40) FF #51 (great nomination…wish I’d thought of that one)
41) Ultimate Clone Saga
42) 1602
43) X-factor issue 13 (current run)
44) Avengers Vol.1 #4
45) Amazing spiderman 238-289, who is the hobgoblin
46) Issue 13 of Ultimate Spider-Man
47) Original Wolverine Mini Series by Claremont and Miller
48) Iron man: Demon in a Bottle
49) Korvac Saga (Classic)
50) Avengers: Under Siege (another Classic!)
51) Thunderbolts #1
52) Last Iron Fist Story
Veto 53) Elektra: Assassin
Veto 54) Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme mini
55) X-factor 87, where Doc Samson analyses the team
56) Kree/Skrull War
57) What if Venom possessed the Punisher
58) Earth X (I wish it were canon too!)
59) Uncanny X-Men #205
60) Punisher: Welcome Back, Frank
61) Punisher: The Slavers
62) Alan Davis' Excalibur run



And I’m gonna veto a few of the above now:

23, 41, 46 and anything else Ultimate Spider-man related. I have the whole run. I’m a big fan, but it’s nothing more than throwaway fun. Good storytelling; Yes. Classic: No!

34) First Apocalypse. A storyline with major long term implications, but nothing outstanding about it in and of itself!

47) Claremont and BWS did a far better job in Uncanny #205!

51) Great shock value, but not in and of itself a great story…now if the whole run hadn’t already been vetoed…

56) Kree/Skrull War. I know it tied a lot of stuff together, but the resolution just made me cringe. Never liked Rick Jones ever since. And later Avengers Sagas were far superior.

57) Not my cup of Java…sorry!


And I’d like to add two new nominations at this venture

a) The Havoc and Wolvie Limited Series: Meltdown
b) Daredevil…I think it’s #219. A stand alone Frank Miller Classic!


Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-02-25 05:28:38
I Date Myself, But...
Nothing has ever hit me harder than Amazing Spider-Man 121-122.







Posted by R Nitelight on 2008-02-25 06:15:26
Pulling a Me
I remind people of ground rules? I'm not even sure there HAVE been ground rules before this. So, umm, I guess I'm "pulling a me" by pointing out that I'm not positive that I've previously pulled a me before.

Anyway.

I'd like to veto Marvel 1602. I have the book, I love the book, but a classic? It's definitely not what I immediately think of when I think of Marvel books. Which is what I would term a classic. It's more like a brilliant What If?

I may be setting a dangerous precedent here but I'd like to nominate The Incredible Hulk #1. Hulk's origin story with Bruce Banner throwing himself in front of the Gamma Bomb to save Rick Jones is timeless. I still can picture the scene where he's being blown forward by the explosion with his arms flung out. And while I'm afraid that this, combined with Spider-Man's origin story, could create a rash of "Oh, and so-and-so's origin story!", I still stand by it.

Alright, and just because I have two nominations and I want to cover my first with a super-vetoeable second, I pick New Avengers #1. By classic I mean: A piece of work that has made one of the biggest impacts on the comic line in recent years. There.

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-02-25 07:34:10
Born to be alive
Is Born Again definitely off the list? It's my ultimate DD story and to my mind, Matt's story ended there. he and Karen are raising kids out in Hoboken or somewhere.

if it's gone, may I add PAD's The Death of Jean DeWolf.

And if Dark Phoenix has gone, I'll take the Headmen in Defenders.

(Apologies if I'f got this wrong, I'm having trouble keeping things straight.)

Posted by Volthoom on 2008-02-25 08:24:03
pseudo...
lol. You provided "corrections" in the gripe thread to try to keep people on track, so I thought I would fill your shoes with that. Pulling a you is a good thing!!!!

I hate not having Born Again and Dark Phoenix Saga (what has become the CORE story for X-men) not on the list.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-25 08:35:57
vetoified so...
1) X-Force/X-Statix by Milligan and Allred
2) Typhoid Mary by Nocenti and Van Fleet (best best comic ever made, more than a classic, should became a reference for anyone who 'd like to do super-heroes comics-books )

so strange that Born Again is not on the list

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-02-25 10:29:33
1) Joss Whedon's "Gifted" arc on Astonishing X-Men. This was actually the arc that pulled me into super hero comics as a whole. At the time I read only indie and horror stuff. His use of X-Men past really drew me in despite the fact that I had not real prior knowledge (with the exception of what I remembered from the X-Men Animated series back in the early 90's)

2. Avengers: Disassembled. This arc really brought me into the rest of the world of Marvel. To me, this is beginning of the present day Marvel Universe. This was the arc that kick started EVERYTHING as we know it today.

Posted by causeitwasfunny on 2008-02-25 11:36:18
Two New
1) "The One" by Rick Veitch. Possibly the first deconstructionist superhero comic book, it was a powerful and savage commentary on war and politics, freedom and liberty and superhero as metaphor. It predated Watchmen, and is one of the finest, complex and emotionally charged books Marvel have ever published.

2) "Groo The Wanderer". Not only Marvel's longest running title with a single creative team, Groo was vast in its scope. Despite joking that it had only one joke, Groo was about everything in our world, reinterpreted through its own warped and pointed perspective. Infinite in variety, perfect in detail and a book that rewarded repeat readings.

Posted by RichJohnston on 2008-02-25 11:37:18
Hang on...
I posted too soon, missing the specific Groo story. Groo #55. The issue in which Groo discovers a perfectly balanced ecosystem. And by interfering with one part of nature, destroys the balance. His repeated attempts to fix his mistake only create further waves of chaos, leading to complete and utter destruction. Rather prescient. A perfect structure, character and logical follow through with some damn fine gags. And one of the finest comic books ever published.

Posted by RichJohnston on 2008-02-25 11:43:15
Touche
I see what you mean, bigdaddy. I take back my comment.

And yeah, it is sad to see Dark Phoenix not on there. It's possible that the repetition of the Phoenix death-rebirth-redeath may have killed it as a classic.

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-02-25 11:43:39
I'd just like to say I can't believe the Galactus trilogy and MARVELS have been vetoed. I'm seconding "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" (the most emotional Spider-Man story) and newly nominating:
1) The issues of Amazing Spider-Man where Captain Stacy dies (around #90 something).
2) FF #285. John Byrne story with the Human Torch coming to terms with the death of a young imitator.

I haven't read it so it can't be a classic? Really??

Posted by skagandboneman on 2008-02-25 11:55:30
Howard Lives
Don't-Hate-da-Duck!!!

Posted by cody44 on 2008-02-25 12:03:30
1.) Amazing Spiderman 'If this be my destiny' , spidey pinned while room fills with water and subsequent greatest splash page ever.
2.) First storyarc in Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-men. Cooler than even Morrison's run.

Posted by TConway on 2008-02-25 12:22:35
I am vetoing:

Judd Winick's initial run on Exiles
1602
Last Iron Fist Story
Punisher: The Slavers
The Havoc and Wolvie Limited Series: Meltdown

Posted by CylverSaber on 2008-02-25 12:42:59
Something old: “the night that Gwen Stacy died”.

Something new: Brubaker’s Captain America.


Posted by freyes2000 on 2008-02-25 12:45:48
Okay, this is just silly. Planet Hulk was vetoed for being too new, and the Master Planner story was vetoed for being so old that one guy hadn't read it and couldn't be sure it was a classic. If you can't have new stuff and you can't have old stuff, what can you have?

Be that as it may, I'll put a different one up:

Daredevil - Wake Up by Bendis and David Mack. It's emotional, it's gorgeous, it's accessible, it's interesting. It'll be vetoed by someone who hasn't read it, I'm sure.


Avengers: Disassembled isn't a classic. Heck, it's almost not readable. Its first issue or two are so unpleasant that the story's better if you skip them. I don't care what impact it had, it's gotta be good.

1602 isn't a classic because its whole appeal is tremendously gimmicky. Oh, look, a superhero in the past! Oh, look, another superhero in the past! It was fun, but it's not even worth reading twice let alone held up for the ages. Plus, its ending sort of sucks.

New Avengers #1 is nothing special. It's set-up. It's got entertaining dialogue, but that's about it. It's a good puzzle piece, not a great masterwork.

Amazing Fantasy 15 is fun, but too corny to take seriously.

X-Factor 13 is summing up what's already going on. It illuminates the series around it, but isn't a classic in itself. A fantastic issue to be sure, but we've only got ten slots here and can't include such minor character pieces.

Avengers #4 isn't particularly good when compared to the other issues of the period.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-25 12:52:26
TConway: That's the Master Planner arc I suggested. It's already been vetoed by someone who hasn't read it and says nothing he hasn't read can be a classic.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-25 12:53:48
By the way, Daredevil: Wake Up is Daredevil v2 #16-19. That's what I'm calling a classic.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-25 12:59:27
sigh
I feel bad for the poor intern who is going to have to read every single post. No way Tom has enough time to do it. Looks like over half the posters didn't even bother to read the rules (only 2 nominations per person! "runs" are not the same as "Classic Marvel Stories").

DD: Born Again
X:Men Hellfire Saga (Claremont/Byrne)

I veto the Ultimate Clone Saga. I mean really. I love Ult Spider-Man, Bendis, and Bagley, but that storyline is not a classic. I doubt even the creators would put it on a list of Top 10 all time.

Posted by joeshan on 2008-02-25 13:36:29
Some “runs”, as Brubaker’s, tell a specific story. Really. If you only read Captain America 25 it doesn’t make sense. Its a single story through several issues.

Posted by freyes2000 on 2008-02-25 13:45:33
1.)Cassadays short run on Captain America
2.)House of M

Posted by TConway on 2008-02-25 13:56:22
Anybody get the feeling
that the "final" list is going to be a bunch of issues that somebody mentioned in passing and everyone forgot to veto?

Posted by Muldrate on 2008-02-25 14:08:08
good times
1) Shooter and Perez - the Avengers (70's)
2) Mary Jo Duffy and Kerry Gamill Power Man and Iron Fist (70's)
3) Claremont and Romita, Jr. X-Men (earl;y 80's)
4) John Byrne's West Coast Avengers (80's)
5) John Byrne's Fantastic Four (80')
6) Walter Simonson Fantastic Four (80's)
7) George Perez Project Pegasis (Marvel 2-in-1, 70's)
8) Claremont and Byrne X-Men (80's)
9) Nicieza and Bagley's New Warriors (80's)
10) (Justice League of America, 2nd series - #^@& if it ain't)

How's that True Believer!!
(no real order to the entries)

otherwise -
Claremont and Silvestri's Muir Isle Saga (X-men 240ish to 250ish)
Secret Wars (!!!!!)

Posted by Bi11 on 2008-02-25 14:13:42
I'd just like to say I can't believe the Galactus trilogy and MARVELS have been vetoed. I'm seconding "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" (the most emotional Spider-Man story) and newly nominating:
1) The issues of Amazing Spider-Man where Captain Stacy dies (around #90 something).
2) FF #285. John Byrne story with the Human Torch coming to terms with the death of a young imitator.

I haven't read it so it can't be a classic? Really??

Posted by skagandboneman on 2008-02-25 14:18:44
Veto House Of M. Just not a classic. It tears stuff down rather than adding anything.

Posted by skagandboneman on 2008-02-25 14:22:42
1st poster, all those hours ago...
So, has Runaways vol 1 made it all the way then? If not, then it's got to be
1)Runaways: The Good Die Young (I think this is vol 1 #18-24).
2)The Nam #1-4!!!

Some wild nominations, everybody...

Posted by Skippa on 2008-02-25 14:36:51
Complete List
Here is the list so far.
1. Walt's Thor
2. God Loves Man Kills
3. Claremont's X-Men run
4. FF #51.
5. Avengers: The Return of Cap
6. ASM: The Hobgoblin Saga
7. Miller's Daredevil the man w/o fear
8. Punisher Circle of Death
9. DD #219
10. ASM 121-122
11. Hulk #1
12. Headman in ...
13. X-Force. X-Statix
14. Typhoid Mary
15. Whedon's Ast. X-Men
16. The One by Rick V.
17. Groo 55
18. ASM 90. Death of Capt. Stacy
19. FF 285
20. ASM. "If this is my dest."
21. Iron Man Demon
22. Avengers Korvan Saga
23. X-Factor #7
24. X-Men #186
25. New Mutants Demon Bear
26. X-Men Fatal Attractions
27. What If #105
28. Marvel Boy 1-6
29. Punisher. The End
30. Earth X
31. UXM 205
32. Punisher Welcome Back
33. Daredevil Wake Up
34. Hellfire Saga
35. Casadeee's short run on Cap
36. The Nam 1-4
37. Runaways the good die young.

Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-25 14:56:47
1) New Mutants #45 ("We Were Only Fooling")
2) Fantastic Four #285 ("Hero")

Both classics!

Posted by Simon Bowland on 2008-02-25 14:57:21
That's the list, after going through everything that had been added and hadn't been vetoed. Time to take care of this.

1. Walt's Thor
2. God Loves Man Kills
3. Claremont's X-Men run (Gotta VETO cause it's not a story)
4. FF #51.
5. Avengers: The Return of Cap
6. ASM: The Hobgoblin Saga (Waay too long, VETO because)
7. Miller's Daredevil the man w/o fear
8. Punisher Circle of Death (VETOING all of the Punisher's because the top 10 classics can't ALL be punisher, should come up with a consensus)
9. DD #219
10. ASM 121-122
11. Hulk #1
12. Headman in ... (VETO)
13. X-Force. X-Statix (VETO, you really wanted Typhoid Mary huh...)
14. Typhoid Mary
15. Whedon's Ast. X-Men First Arc,
16. The One by Rick V. (VETO)
17. Groo 55 (VETO)
18. ASM 90. Death of Capt. Stacy
19. FF 285
20. ASM. "If this is my dest." (VETO)
21. Iron Man Demon
22. Avengers Korvan Saga
23. X-Factor #7
24. X-Men #186
25. New Mutants Demon Bear
26. X-Men Fatal Attractions
27. What If #105
28. Marvel Boy 1-6
29. Punisher. The End (VETO)
30. Earth X
31. UXM 205
32. Punisher Welcome Back (VETO)
33. Daredevil Wake Up
34. Hellfire Saga
35. Casadeee's short run on Cap
36. The Nam 1-4 (VETO)
37. Runaways the good die young

Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-25 15:02:20
Forget its legacy- House of M isn't a classic because it doesn't do anything we haven't all seen a hundred times. Okay, so there's the nice family drama behind the whole thing, but overall you've got a story where reality changes, people realize it changes, and they change it back. What a cliché.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-25 15:03:33
Which leaves us with
1. Walt's Thor
2. God Loves Man Kills
3. FF #51.
4. Avengers: The Return of Cap
5. Miller's Daredevil the man w/o fear
6. DD #219
7. ASM 121-122
8. Hulk #1
9. Typhoid Mary
10. Whedon's Ast. X-Men First Arc,
11. ASM 90. Death of Capt. Stacy
12. FF 285
13. Iron Man Demon
14. Avengers Korvan Saga
15. X-Factor #7
16. X-Men #186
17. New Mutants Demon Bear
18. X-Men Fatal Attractions
19. What If #105
20. Marvel Boy 1-6
21. Earth X
22. UXM 205
23. Daredevil Wake Up
24. Hellfire Saga
25. Casadeee's short run on Cap
26. Runaways the good die young

(Runaways was originally vetoed because it was an entire series, "the good die young nom. came later.)

Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-25 15:05:31
adding...
of course someone posted between the math. gotta add his 2 cents.

1. Walt's Thor
2. God Loves Man Kills
3. FF #51.
4. Avengers: The Return of Cap
5. Miller's Daredevil the man w/o fear
6. DD #219
7. ASM 121-122
8. Hulk #1
9. Typhoid Mary
10. Whedon's Ast. X-Men First Arc,
11. ASM 90. Death of Capt. Stacy
12. FF 285
13. Iron Man Demon
14. Avengers Korvan Saga
15. X-Factor #7
16. X-Men #186
17. New Mutants Demon Bear
18. X-Men Fatal Attractions
19. What If #105
20. Marvel Boy 1-6
21. Earth X
22. UXM 205
23. Daredevil Wake Up
24. Hellfire Saga
25. Casadeee's short run on Cap
26. Runaways the good die young
27. New Mutants #45 ("We Were Only Fooling")
28. Fantastic Four #285 ("Hero")




Posted by Thomas More on 2008-02-25 15:07:21
Maybe it would be better to tell a synopsis
rather than just putting issue numbers up. Face it classics are books that everyone wants to read, or have read. So more vetoing and this is what I think is good of the list.

1. Walt's Thor
2. God Loves Man Kills
4. FF #51.
5. Avengers: The Return of Cap
7. Miller's Daredevil the man w/o fear
10. ASM 121-122
21. Iron Man Demon
25. New Mutants Demon Bear
26. X-Men Fatal Attractions
37. Runaways the good die young

I think that is a decent list. Veto everything else not mentioned.


Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 15:10:42
Half those issues mentioned if they were classics people would be all for reading them. Ive been reading issues for 22 years and some of those I could care less about ever reading.

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 15:12:18
Wow
I just spent like 10 min trying to construct the updated list only to find someone cut a swath through the entire thing, leaving very little left.

So, yeah, nevermind. I actually avoided vetoing ones I hadn't read and didn't have an opinion on, but if this is going to get restructured as a whole, it sort of defeats the purpose.

I guess I don't have anything else to post on the subject...

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-02-25 15:20:15
veto time
I veto x-men fatal attractions, what if 105, runaways good die young, x men 186, new mutants demon bear, casadees short run on cap, earth x, uxm 205, marvel boy 1-6, whedons x men arc, and x-factor 7. Thank you

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-25 15:28:46
How can people expect to have a consensus
when people are pulling out books that not everyone has read? That is why I suggested all those vetoes. Not everyone has read them. If we are coming up with a list of 10 it needs to be books people maybe familiar with. Since this blog is for everyone to participate. Not everyone on here has read every book mentioned. Doesn't mean they arent allowed to participate. Classics are popular story lines that a majority of people have read. so yeah we dont need a 30 numbered list.

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 15:35:20
Current List
1. Walt's Thor
2. God Loves Man Kills
3. FF #51.
4. Avengers: The Return of Cap
5. Miller's Daredevil the man w/o fear
6. ASM 121-122
7. Iron Man Demon


Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 15:46:13
Grand Unifying Theory of Vetoing!
Hey guys, MoriartyL vetoed Caps return a while back.

As regards vetoing generally, I'm sure there's nothing on the current list that every single person who posts to this blog has read especially newbies to the MU (in my case, I've never read Demon in a bottle...I know, shame on me) so if we all used the "Veto what we haven't read" option, then I figure we wouldn't have anything left at all...which may be Tom's point.
Personally, I'm only vetoing stuff I have read myself, and am trusting the good taste of others to veto that which they have read, and I haven't, that they don't think deserves the status of classic...but to each his own.

So, can I (probably temporarily) add Weapon X from MCP to the list.

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-02-25 16:30:12
Now, I want a reason for vetoing "The One"...

Posted by RichJohnston on 2008-02-25 16:33:10
Brubaker and Eptings' entire Cap run.
Wolverine: Enemy of the State by Millar and JRJR

Posted by ZacGoyette on 2008-02-25 17:15:57
Mark Waid did NOT "leave FF in a huff"!!! He got fired!!! Ringo left in solidarity, and eventually Marvel caved and asked them to come back. The fury generated by Waid's firing was so immense that Newsarama crashed. "Marvel Knights 4" got a really bad rep from this turn of events and that's what caused it to remain in FF's shadow (although the return of Waid and Wieringo to FF itself was overshadowed by the launch of Ultimate FF).

I request the "Hereafter" veto to be overturned because the rationale for vetoing is apparently based on personal misunderstandings by one person.

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-02-25 17:22:43
AND the walls are falling in.
I can't believe that this has turned into the primordial goo that I think was the point of this exercise.
Are you kidding me?
Amazing Fantasy 15- too corny to take seriously. So, 548 issues in we still don't take it seriously? Seriously.
Dark Phoenix
The Coming of Galactus
Born Again
All canned?

Really?



Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-02-25 17:34:05
Incidentally, is it fair to veto stuff you just haven't read? I am loathe to veto anything for that reason, although I suppose it's reasonable to inquire about the really obscure ones...

I veto ASM #121-122 because the whole thing's vague, lacks a coherent narrative and needlessly kills off the two best supporting characters in the book! Felt like it was written by a 19-year-old... no, wait, it actually was.

In its place I'd like to nominate "The Spectacular Spider-Man" #134-136, "The Return of the Sin-Eater" - the sequel to The Death of Jean DeWolffe, and Peter David's best ever work on Spider-Man. Some fine work by Sal Buscema too. My favourite post-Ditko Spider-Man story of all time (even though he's married in it).

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-02-25 17:34:12
try try again
While I think my 2 new suggestions arent nearly in the same category at ff/galactus, dark phoenix, avengers cap, and infinity gauntlet, need to put something up there. Maybe somebody will veto these instead of the 2 decent stories remaining iron man demon and asm 121-122.

1.) Evolutionary war
2.) amazing spiderman (pursuit i think, somebody help me out) where peters parents turn out to be phony, and spiderman chases chameleon to the masterminds hideout where he finds a video of his recently deceased friend harry osborn laughing at him, its in the late 300's

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-25 17:43:51
to late
looks like i posted a lil late in regards to asm 121-122, i veto wolvering enemy of the state, brubaker captain no way shape and form classics yet, compare those stories to dark phoenix, and ff/ galactus and youll see my point

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-25 17:47:08
If you dont veto books you havent read
and there are a list of say 40 books than how are we supposed to narrow it down to 10?

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 18:03:41
I'm gonna add this to the list The Avengers/ Defenders War. Two titanic team ups plus the famous Thor vs Hulk battle.

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 18:05:09
Because that's just nuts, mre2u. There's no way you'd be able to find ONE comic that everybody's read, let alone ten.

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-02-25 18:08:44
Moon river
Can I veto God Loves, Man Kills for being unbearably obvious and preachy; and Daredevil: The Man Without Fear for being a retelling of other peoples' work.

Has anyone mentioned the Moench/Sienkiwicz run of Moon Knight or Claremont/Sienkiewicz New Mutants? Top stuff!

Posted by Volthoom on 2008-02-25 18:38:13
in response to no read
True youll never find one comic that everyone reads or likes, but isnt a classic story by definition one that everyone has heard of. You may not like the story but if you havent read it but know it, you can probably bet its a classic. For example, i dont like any of the x-men books never have, there ok but i dont think there anywheres near as good as spidy or any of the avengers books, hence y i vetoed most of those x-men stories, but I know the dark phoenix saga, truly a great story and one that everyone has heard of. Thats y it deserves to be on the list.

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-25 18:58:57
which is y if someone hasnt read something and they want to veto it, i say y not

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-25 19:00:00
Going for spidey and wolvie
The classic miniseries from Wolverine from Frank Miller and the clone saga from Spiderman

Posted by Blodawn5 on 2008-02-25 20:53:11
an avengers nom again
Stern & John Buscema's "Under Siege" Avengers story from 273-277 - Baron Zemo becomes a major player, leading the Masters of Evil to an utter domination of the Avengers before a miracle comeback. Seriously, if this isn't the best Avengers story of all time it certainly is in the conversation.

mre2u vetoing it without even mentioning a reason is just plain wrong.

I'd like to also nominate the "Mutant Genesis" initial arc on X-Men by Claremont, Lee & others, featuring great showdowns with Magneto and Omega Red.

Posted by procko983 on 2008-02-25 21:27:04
also...
I have to say that it's a little sad that Silver Surfer Requiem (a must-read for anyone who has lost/is losing someone to cancer and/or loves the Surfer) and Brubaker's story on Cap were eliminated for being too new. Unfortunately, the predecessor of Requiem, the Death of Captain Marvel, seems to have its weight lessened due to his recent return.

I'd say that Brubaker's Cap #1-25 having been released as one omnibus collection helps to negate the issue of "full runs don't count" (unless one veto = definitive).

Posted by procko983 on 2008-02-25 21:33:49
i havent read it is worth enough reason for vetoing.

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 21:34:04
i didnt see a sign saying only certain people that have read every comic in the world can participate.

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-25 21:34:42
Veto question
I take exception to people vetoing books they've never read. If you haven't read it, that doesn't mean it's not a classic. It just means you haven't read all the classics. (I know I haven't. This thread is giving me a huge new wishlist of books to track down.)

And thanks to Simon Bowland for remembering the title to "We Were Only Fooling!" Maybe the best Claremont-era X-Men single issue ever. And the Kitty is the only X-Man in it.


Posted by Gentleman Jack on 2008-02-25 23:16:04
Steve M
Don't think anyone's mentined Avengers "The Korvac Saga" or the
Avengers Annual and Marvel Two-In-One Annuals where Spidey and the Thing helped the Avengers and Adam Warlock defeat Thanos and we saw Warlock's past self kill his current self; we had seen the same scene months or a year or more earlier from the other point of view in one of the Warlock series.

Posted by Steve M on 2008-02-25 23:24:37
Iron Man
I nominate "Armor Wars." The story really showed how far over the line Tony was willing to go to do what what he thought was right and was also the first big blowup between him and Cap.

2. Don't know if its been posted but "Days of Future Past." Perhaps the only X-Men story more revered than the Dark Phoenix saga.

Posted by Typhon22 on 2008-02-26 01:44:14
Incredible hulk 180-181

Posted by Habble on 2008-02-26 06:22:46
best ever!
Fantastic Four enters the Negative Zone story ft. Annihillus.

Posted by razorclaw73 on 2008-02-26 06:41:01
bigdaddyhub2: Amazing Fantasy 15 kicked off a really cool series, but it in itself is not a classic. Put it this way: If Amazing Spider-Man hadn't been launched, no one would particularly care about AF 15, much less be calling it a classic. The seriously good Spider-Man stories happened in the series proper.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-26 06:43:27
Veto Power
I think it should require more than one veto to eliminate a title.




Posted by R Nitelight on 2008-02-26 07:05:52
Two Picks
I nominate the “Silver Dagger” storyline in DR. STRANGE, #1-#2, #4-#5, and the “Serpent Crown” storyline in AVENGERS #141-#144, #147-#149.

SRS


Posted by Steven R. Stahl on 2008-02-26 07:25:20
Yeah...
Okay, well, the list pretty much got turned into a joke. It was left with "one guy's personal top 10." And I hope that "I haven't read the book" isn't the best reason for vetoing, which would mean that I would have then vetoed all but 3-4 of that list that was left after the reaping. I haven't even HEARD of 2-3 of them, let alone am willing to judge them as classics because they're clearly great no matter what I read.

Really, that just sort of threw all the rules out of the window and turned it from a group decision into a self-elected chairman deal.

Pretty sad. But I guess that's what happens when you leave things to the honor and self judgement of the masses.

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-02-26 07:55:37
By the way, if you look at how Tom phrased the question, he's asking for the stories of the highest QUALITY, not the stories which are most well-known. So if you haven't heard of something, it doesn't disqualify it. And if EVERYONE's heard of it, that's not enough. It's got to be the "best-of-the-best.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-02-26 10:57:39
My Picks
First I would like to veto the Dark Phoenix Saga. Any of claremont's work should be stricken. He sucks the life out of all stories leaving only depression.

My Picks
1.) Mutant massacre - This stories is still rippling through today's books.
2.) Weapon X - This story defined Wolverine.

Posted by loki8275 on 2008-02-26 11:21:51
I veto Mutant Genesis, since even Claremont has said that is one of his worst works at a time he was leaving Marvel.

I nominate Kirby’s Eternals. I you haven’t read it, what are you doing on the computer vetoing? Go find it!


Posted by freyes2000 on 2008-02-26 11:36:05
moriarty reread
if youll reread what tom said youll see that he says 10 classics that everyone can agree with, if people havent heard of it, they pretty much cant agree with it being an all time top 10 classic now can they, seems pretty much common sense to me

Posted by jvshaft on 2008-02-26 12:02:39
Ok - in place of my last vetoed one, I (re?)nominate the original Wolverine miniseries by Claremont and Miller. From the first issue's iconic cover to the last page of the story, there is some really great stuff in there and apparently it wasn't added to Tom's list of classics that he already gleaned from here.

Posted by procko983 on 2008-02-26 12:36:32
jvshaft
If you haven't heard of it, maybe it's worthwhile to go check it out?

Posted by procko983 on 2008-02-26 12:37:03
the blog says have 10 books that everyone consider classics and not 40.

Posted by mre2u on 2008-02-26 12:38:55
My Nomination
Amazing Spider-Man #266 - This Man - This Frog! (aka Jump for my love AND Spring is in the air)....As much as I'd like to nominate Civil War, or Dark Phoenix, or Brubaker Cap, or some different Peter David - this issue totally rocks. Spidey + the Toad + the Frogman = funniest single issue of ASM yet. And then The Spectacular Spider-Kid shows up. And this Misfits were born (tho one can only imagine they spazzed out hours later).

Posted by RobClose on 2008-02-26 12:52:32
Nominate Man-Thing v1 #15-22 - the whole 22 issues are great, but some of these were Gerber at his peak.

Nominate Doctor Strange v1 #48 - 73; Stern got Doctor Strange like no-one since the original Ditko run, and with a fine set of artists (Paul Smith, Marshall Rogers,...)

Posted by GS ManThing on 2008-02-26 13:34:17
Under the criteria “haven’t heard of that one, mustn’t be a classic”, we would have to nominate most of Marvel current stories that have been widely covered by the media.

On the other hand, when I read “Master planner” I had to google it, because I didn’t remember that one. I found that I have read the story many times I just wasn’t aware of the title. Maybe, some stories that you don’t find classic because “haven’t heard of” have the same problem.


Posted by freyes2000 on 2008-02-26 13:42:28
To add to the pot
I'm really surprised no one seems to have mentioned Daredevil 181 - surely a classic issue.
Thanos Quest has one of the best endings I can remember - even if it does set up Infinity Gauntlet.
What about 'The Death of Captain Marvel'? There are so many good stories that I don't think anyone has nominated yet....

Posted by GreatGraeme on 2008-02-26 15:29:20
Veto Kirby's Eternals - sorry, but it's a limp retread of Greek myth filtered through Von Daniken.

Posted by GS ManThing on 2008-02-26 15:34:12
Nominate Daredevil 159-191

Nominate Strange Tales 176-181, Warlock 9-11, Marvel Two-in-one Annual #2, Avengers Annual #7 (all one story: Warlock v Magus)

Posted by GS ManThing on 2008-02-26 15:58:36
Have these been suggested?
1) Uncanny X-Men-141-142 Days of Future Past

2) Those it's inter-company, the X-Men/New Teen Titans one shot that Simonson drew

Posted by JBeckett on 2008-02-26 18:12:37
Mark Millers 1st Arc on Ultimates
also Earth x

Posted by BobbyBrewster on 2008-02-27 08:31:43
Wolverine: enemy of the state
Sensational Spider-man: Back in Black

Posted by Wild_Wolf on 2008-02-27 09:37:15
Amazing Spider-Man Annual 21

Posted by LOTRKing on 2008-02-27 10:42:36
loki8275
"First I would like to veto the Dark Phoenix Saga. Any of claremont's work should be stricken. He sucks the life out of all stories leaving only depression.

My Picks
1.) Mutant massacre - This stories is still rippling through today's books.
2.) Weapon X - This story defined Wolverine."

You vetoed your own nomination...you ask to strike anything by Claremont and then nominate something he wrote ("Mutant Massacre")? That doesn't make sense.

I'll nominate
1)Giant-Size X-Men #1. A milestone in X-history; a fun, great read to this day; and one of the most famous covers in comic book history.

2)Avengers #213-230, "The Trial of Yellowjacket." Of course, like Dark Phoenix, it's been messed up a bit by writers who couldn't leave well enough alone, but this was a heartbreaking deconstruction of an iconic character, who finally found some redemption in the end.

Posted by renfield75 on 2008-02-27 18:52:27
Veto
Veto-X-Men/New Teen Titans one shot that Simonson drew, it was great. but not "ten classics" great.

Posted by mace randu on 2008-02-27 20:19:53
I wanted to add:

Earth X saga - I just loved this to death!!!

And the Peter Parker Spectacular Spider-Man 72-79, a gang war story with Spidey, the Black Cat, the Owl, Kingpin, and Doc Ock. It's never been reprinted and is hardly mentioned, but other than KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT it's one of my favorite Spidey stories EVER!!!

Posted by pmpknface on 2008-02-28 08:26:32
The Green Goblin's Last Stand
Spiderman 121-122, featuring the Death of not just Gwen Stacy, but the Green Goblin as well. It was my initiation into comics, and oddly enough, still one of the high points. And heck, I'll vote for any of Ultimates 1 or 2 ... god, but I loved that comic.

Sadly, Ultimates 3 is underwhelming so far.

Posted by jszilla on 2008-02-29 20:53:12