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Boneheaded Mistakes
2008-03-20 18:39:18

There's a lot to like about the current state of comic books--the excellent printing, the growth of hardcover and trade paperback collections of every sort, the fact that there's a network of stores across the country dedicated to making it easy not to miss an issue.

By that same token, there are some things that are quite different. And one of them is the fact that there's now a network of plugged-in fans who are following these titles, an audience that isn't so casual any more. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does change some of the conditions when working on a series--especially when it comes to mistakes.

It's a plain fact of life: every comic book has a mistake in it of some kind. That's just the luck of the draw. Some comics have multiple mistakes. (Some comics simply ARE mistakes, from one end to the other.) And these days, the audience takes these mistakes, regardless of what they are, much more seriously. Time was, Stan Lee could just joke about making "another boneheaded mistake" and that'd be the end of it. But in 2008, people are looking for more. Maybe it's the whole post-Watergate, post-9/11 conspiracy mentality, but there are often times when readers make more out of a mistake than what is actually there.

(There are also times when a particular fan will find something that he perceives as a mistake, and become very indignant about it--even when what he's talking about isn't a mistake at all. This most often happens when it's a matter of continuity, and that particular reader missed a story in the interim that changed the element of the character that the reader thinks is a mistake. I call this "selective continuity.")

Some of this is our fault, in that we spent a lot of time encouraging people to think about the unified Marvel Universe--sometimes in greater importance than the individual stories within that universe. And every once in a while, there's a whole storyline that exists only to fix some earlier mistake. The one which immediately comes to mind was a storyline in SILVER SURFER that revealed that there was a Surfer impostor running around the cosmos, and that he was the Surfer who attended the Death of Captain Marvel (since Jim Starlin had forgotten the fact that the Surfer, at that time, was trapped on Earth, and had drawn him in among a group of heroes in a splash page.) That seems a bit extreme on the other side.

But most often of all, a mistake is just a mistake. It happens. And it doesn't mean that the creators involved don't care, or that nobody's minding the store, or that there's some larger story reason in the offing that will explain it all and make it brilliant foreshadowing.

More later.

Tom B

I veto selective continuity.

Posted by kyle-latino on 2008-03-20 19:39:29

Complaining About Mistakes
It's a lot easier to overlook a mistake if a book only costs 10 cents or a quarter or 50 cents, but at 3 bucks a pop, don't do it on my watch!

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-03-20 20:03:49

Dusty, I think you mean "...but at 3 bucks a pop, that doesn't do it on my watch!"
You made a mistake.

Posted by harveytherabbit on 2008-03-20 22:52:16

To be fair, even if his response had a mistake (and to my eye it doesn't), his is free and yours doesn't really add anything but snark.

Personally, I'm ok with the occasional mistake (typo or whatever). I'm ok with the occasional continuity issue as long as the story is good. If the story is bad then the continuity is just a sore thumb on a bloated carcass.

Posted by Matthan on 2008-03-20 23:11:38

It wasn't a mistake
I was telling Marvel or any comic that I'm paying 3 dolars for not to screw up while I'm reading or else face my empty and harmless wrath.

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-03-21 00:40:37

The typo on DOLLARS was a mistake
Now you know the difference, harvy.

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-03-21 00:41:37

There are many reasons why comics dont cost 10 cents any more, but none of them include the promise not to make mistakes

Posted by Rain on 2008-03-21 06:06:44

Biggest Mistake ever in comics..
Is OMD/BND. Period.

Posted by Steve Zoovie on 2008-03-21 08:41:51

I am for selective continuity. It's the only way that writers can break out of completely inscrutable pasts in order to breathe new life into characters.

Dusty, sorry man, but it is clearly "Harvey" not "Harvy". 3 mistakes in 3 posts. Glass houses and stones, right?

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-03-21 10:14:00

Steve
Steve, you don't like OMD. We get it. You don't have to keep saying it.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-03-21 10:17:37

mistakes
I don't mind mistakes or retcons or ignoring inconvenient stories that are over a decade old to tell a good story of your own. However, I do mind when it's pretty clear that a writer hasn't done his homework. I enjoy Brian Bendis' work but for some reason his "There's no such thing as Chaos Magic" coming from Doctor Strange at the end of Avengers Disassembled still annoys me a bit even though it was subsequently cleaned up by other writers.

I suppose it was because with one casual line it threw away not just one plot, story or character but literally hundreds of comics I
had read and enjoyed including most of Werewolf by Night, all of
the Midnight Sons crossovers and basically any story that ever
featured Chthon, Modred, or the Darkhold.

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-03-21 12:08:12

Inflexibility
Your suggestion that this is due to Watergate and 9/11 conspiracy obsession is interesting. I'm not sure I totally agree, but I also wouldn't say they don't have anything to do with it. It might be that those are more of byproducts of the same source.

Clearly, there's a certain amount of inflexibility in the thinking of many people these days. My suggestion might be that we've started relying on science over faith, and while I'm not into organized religion, this emphasis on cold, hard facts attached to everything is sort of suffocating.

There was a time that people could put a little bit more of wilfull disbelieve (I forget the proper term) into their fictional stories, which made Stan's mistakes okay. His interjections were accepted because everyone was aware they were reading fantasy that was written by real people, and so they allowed a flexibility/falibility to the storytelling that could be excused.

Now we have to have a flow chart that spells out every choice within a fictional world and there is no more room allowed for contrary facts and brief, unimportant imaginings. Everything is either a fact or someone's mistake, and no one can be forgiven a public mistake.

Frankly, reality contains quite a bit of contradiction and things that "shouldn't exist". Even in izzatrix's example: Doctor Strange is not a god, maybe he was just upset at the issue and decided to say it didn't exist because he didn't agree with it or understand it completely. Perhaps Bendis would have been better off writing an epilogue where Strange is sitting around his mansion, drinking a glass of wine, and muttering: "Dangit, Strange. You just had to go and open your mouth and play the 'fount of ultimate universal wisdom' and 'lay down the laws of magic.'" He shakes his head. "Oh well, maybe no one will notice..."

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-03-21 13:57:26

I think that the difference between the response to mistakes today versus 20 or 30 years ago is that in the past, when a mistake was made, the fans tried to come up with an explanation to fit them into continuity to earn a no-prize.Today, the tendency seems to be to blame the creator(s) for shoddy work.Do no-prizes even exist anymore?Maybe the ultra-critical reactions have always been there, and in the same concentration that they are today, but without an internet they just weren't as visible.

Posted by marksmart on 2008-03-21 17:37:06

I see our old pal bigdaddyhub2 is still playing catchup.

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-03-21 23:27:54

'Maybe it's the whole post-Watergate, post-9/11 conspiracy mentality, but there are often times when readers make more out of a mistake than what is actually there.'

since 9/11, we 're all in jail, must it be remembered ?
I suggest you to make mistakes in jail.

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-03-22 02:49:17

I think that in the past mistakes were admitted and acknowledged more than they are today. That may be why readers of today are more critical. And I also think it's a good reason to bring back the letters page. That was a good place for readers to point out mistakes and for the editor and/or writer to respond.

Posted by rialb on 2008-03-22 10:01:28

congrats!
You didn't make a mistake on that last post, Dusty! Gold star!!!!

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-03-22 22:56:03

I also think part of the problem is the average age of the fans. When I was ten, if I noticed something wrong, I usually assumed the problem was me, and it might actually bug me, because I'd feel left out or stupid for not getting the change/error. Then, when Stan Lee or whoever admitted it was their fault, I'd be relieved and we could all have a good laugh like cocktail buddies, because hey, wacky uncle Stan makes mistakes, too.

Now that the average fan is a snarky twenty-something -- self-included -- I think the tendency is toward sarcastic self-superiority (i.e. "Well, I couldn't possibly be wrong. You're idiots for not remembering how Iron Man combs his hair.") and cynicism. The "wacky uncle whoever" comes off, to the jaded, as a cheap attempt to get me to buy into whatever crossover comes next, and mistakes are viewed in that context.

It's unfortunate. I'm trying to knock it off.

Posted by Muldrate on 2008-03-23 04:29:14

Obfuscation
Hey, a mistake is just a mistake right. That, I have no problem with. As long as the stories you guys knock out are good, the odd continuity glitch isn't that much of an issue for me personally.

However, I've got to admit that is does irk me when I feel, rightly or wrongly, that writers and/or editors are consciously ignoring and contradicting previous continuity (not a dig at BND btw).

Genuine mistakes though, just happen. You say potato, I say Dan Quayle...

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-03-23 16:03:47

just human
hey, writers are ppl too. ppl make mistakes. it to be expected. but as long as they try to keep them to a minimum then i have to problem. just give me a good story arc and some awesome artwork and i'll keep on reading.

Posted by emperorpeacock on 2008-03-23 21:17:15

I'm one of those guys who get irked over continuity mistakes. Little things -- like the Surfer being at Mar-Vell's wedding or chronologies just not being possible to mesh between titles -- I'm willing to overlook. But when an entire story is based on something that's been shown in Marvel books to not be true -- such as Wanda not knowing about her children -- then I'm irked.

I think the nature of the Internet also contributes as fans rush to one-up each other and focus our frustrations. After all, I'm certainly more likely to overlook a mistake by Slott than I am by Bendis because I'm a biased son of a you-know-what.

Posted by motteditor on 2008-03-24 18:39:32

Killing captain america and Brand new day. Huge mistakes.

Posted by Seru1 on 2008-03-24 20:19:42

Emma.

period.

Posted by domino21710 on 2008-03-29 17:41:26

Array

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