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Spidey Answers pt. 5
2008-10-16 10:41:25

Is nothing sacred?

Unmentionable?

The Prowler?

It’s day five, and we’re not anywhere near finished with all of the many assorted Spider-Man questions that have come down the pike, let alone into dealing with some of the issues raised in the responses (which is looking more and more like a pipe dream the further I get into this, and the more bored we all become with covering the same old ground again and again.) But most of today’s questions are relatively straightforward:

> Has the response to this made you reconsider any ideas you
were considering for other characters? >

Gay Rawhide Kid. Oops, too late…

>Is the angry response by half the fans better than a bored shrug by all the fans?

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-10-08 13:45:57>

Yes, absolutely. It’s not quite science, but every time the fans get really upset about a storyline, we see an upturn in sales. Whether that’s because there are more fans who are excited about it, or just people slowing down to see the car crash is debatable, but the plain fact remains that the most successful things we’ve produced over the last decade have all been railed against by upset fans. Silence is deadly. Silence kills books.

>Does Peter remember that he revealed his identity to the world? If so, how come he doesn't wonder why the whole world forgot? If not, then that seems to be a lot more changes than just undoing "I do."

Posted by superscribe on 2008-10-08 14:45:47>

You’re making a couple of understandable leaps in logic here based on what little we’ve shown so far. But as with the earlier Harry Osborn example, this is actually quite simple, and will be very easy to understand once we get to telling the story of specifically how this happened. But for now, all you really need to understand is that Spidey did unmask to the world, and then, during that gap of time between the end of “One More Day” and the beginning of our run, something occurred to erase this knowledge from the minds of everybody on Earth (with the exception of Peter himself.) Peter makes passing reference to this during “New Ways To Die” when he first encounters a Norman Osborn who doesn’t know he’s Spider-man and thinks to himself something along the lines of, “That thing we did is working! He no longer has any idea who I am!”

So Peter knows exactly what transpired to eliminate knowledge of his identity, and that this action wasn’t caused by Mephisto but by something else. (Which makes perfect sense when you think about it, in that, in a world in which Peter was never married, there wouldn’t have been a deal with Mephisto in the first place—there would have been nothing to bargain for.) And that puts us right back to where we started: one thing has changed, and that is the marriage not happening. I realize this can be tough to grapple with given that we haven’t actually covered a lot of this ground in print yet, but that was specifically because we all felt that spending the first year doing stories about the fallout from “One More Day” would have been like pulling teeth for everybody involved, fans and creators alike. But the story if the identity erasure is planned, and you should see it in 2009.

>Is there an official Marvel edict that states that the Clone Saga or anything from that storyliine must never be mentioned again? I don't actually recall a time when Pete or MJ mentioned Ben or the death of their daughter....except to make jokes about it. "Hey I've clones.....great"

Posted by Miles_Warren on 2008-10-08 15:06:32>

Wow, “official edict” sounds incredibly, well, official. I don’t know that we have too many “official edicts” about anything. But no, there’s no official edict about mentioning events from the Clone Saga. I do think, however, that it would be a mistake to be constantly mentioning the miscarried daughter, which goes back to the problem I discussed yesterday: if a married Spider-Man is old, a married Spider-man with a child is ancient. So, like the marriage of the Human Torch, this is an area probably best left untouched and unexplored. That baby was the result of a previous attempt to undo the marriage, and was an enormous difficulty for the creative and editorial teams involved once the decision had been made not to go down that road. Having put all that behind us, it’s probably better all around for it to stay behind us, in the past—not contradicted, but not constantly reinforced either.

>How much of an uproar from fans is necessary to cause a change in the direction of a character?

My only reference for such a change would be the death of Jason Todd. I'm not sure how much actual displeasure there was or how DC editorial became aware of it, I'm sure that would be an interesting story. >

I don’t know all of the ins and outs of what DC editorial was experiencing, but from my vantage point, there was absolutely no outcry in favor of bringing Jason Todd back to life. That was just an idea that Jeph Loeb had while working on BATMAN with Jim Lee. And during that run, it was an idea he wasn’t permitted to execute, having to have it turn out to be Clayface in disguise. However, as the editorial hierarchy over there changed, the new guys were more interested in bringing Jason back (and probably prompted by whatever the reaction was to the story that Jeph and Jim did, and looking to capitalize on that.) but before that, nobody was talking much about Jason Todd.

And the only thing guaranteed to change the direction of a series is really flagging sales. Even then, though, you’re not guaranteed to get the change you want, since it’s only “a” change that will be prompted rather than a specific change. As I mentioned earlier, outcry is actually healthy for a title—when people are talking about you comic, chances are that more people are checking it out. The other thing that’ll change a series is a change of creative team, since each creator has a different vision of the character(s) and different stories that they want to tell. So if we swept the board clean and got different writers on AMAZING, it would go in a somewhat different direction—but again, not necessarily in a direction that you would absolutely like. It’s all a bit of a crapshoot.

For example, if the Spidey books had remained under Axel Alonso’s oversight, they would be different than they are right now. I can’t speak authoritatively for what he might have done or who he might have hired, but I’m relatively certain that AMAZING wouldn’t be coming out three times a month. That was an idea that had been floated by Joe Q several months earlier and rejected a that time for assorted reasons that I quickly latched back onto when the books were handed over to me. The other thing I know would have been different is that, had AMAZING remained with Axel, Gwen Stacy would in all likelihood be alive again. Gwen’s resurrection was one of the most hotly-debated elements of “One More Day”, and something I argued against from day one. But at the end of the day, if the books were remaining in Axel’s hands, he needed to be able to do whatever he thought was best for them, my involvement was only advisory. When the titles switched hands and came over to me, I reopened discussions about bringing Gwen back, even thought he decision had previously been made, because my point of view and preferences aren’t the same as Axel’s would have been. That’s not to say that I’m right and he’s wrong—he and his team may very well have been able to get some outstanding stories out of Gwen’s return, in the same way that Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting made the return of Bucky a success. But I felt that bringing Gwen back was a bridge too far, Steve Wacker and the creators we were bringing onto the Spidey books agreed, and the decision was overturned.

>When is the decision made that a reboot is necessary and how do editors/writers etc. come to that conclusion?

Posted by CaptainMarvel221 on 2008-10-08 15:21:27>

I’m really not trying to be snarky with this next comment, just truthful: this is a question probably better asked to a DC editor, since the DC Universe seems to reboot itself regularly every ten years or so. Undoing the Spidey marriage is probably the closest we’ve ever come at Marvel, and even within that we’ve taken great pains to change or overturn at little as possible (despite the fact that it’s become another political catch-phrase that “Twenty Years of Spidey Continuity is Goooooone!”) But doing what we did was a necessary evil in service to the greater good when it came to repairing Spider-Man. On smaller levels, things have been changed or reversed throughout the years—everything from the Human Torch’s marriage to Colossus’ death. And in each case, there’s some level of discussion about it, but generally the ones that make sense are pretty obvious. It’s inevitable that over 45 years of publishing, mistakes are going to be made, and blind alleys are going to be reached.

>1) Can the Prowler please come through an arc SOON? Hobie Brown works so well with Peter Parker I would just love to see it done by any of the brain trust. Especially with JRjr doing the art. I don't think JRJR has ever drawn the Prowler and he was very influential in JRsr's creation of the character. >

Now that you mention it, I’d love to see JRJR draw the Prowler as well. Dan Slott’s had a great idea for a Prowler story floating around ever since the first Braintrust meeting, we just haven’t had the proper place to slot it into the book. But maybe at some point before too long…

>2) Are you working on getting Dan Jurgens to write and draw an arc or Family story? His previous run was way too short and I'd like to see him come back and work on the 'real' Peter Parker.

Posted by Suiter on 2008-10-08 15:36:43>

I believe Dan is still exclusive to DC at this point, so it’s not in the cards until and unless that changes. On the upside, he is getting to work on his old creation Booster Gold.

>Is there any consideration given to the upset fans during your meetings? >

I think there’s been nothing but consideration given to the upset fans, but I suspect those irate fans would feel differently. We don’t want our readers to be angry, we want them to be enthralled by the stories we’re telling. But there’s short term and long term, and sitting in these chairs, doing these jobs, we sometimes have to consider the long term over the short term, no matter how upset some people are going to become. I asked yesterday what people thought we could do to address fan ire outside of the one thing we’re clearly not going to do, which is reverse the storyline, and the only answer I saw as of this morning amounted to, “Duh, reverse the storyline, jerkface!” There’s nothing I can do with that. That person is going to be angry about this no matter what, and it’s futile to try to address his problems, since there’s only one outcome that will satisfy him.

And if we did exactly what he wants and reverse this storyline, we’d then hear from all of the angry readers who were enjoying the present Spidey books and were angry that we’d changed them back. That’s crystal-clear from the number of times readers have asked about the effect of this storyline on the events of “The Other.” After it came out, it seemed like nobody in creation liked “The Other” or the changes it wrought—but as soon as it seemed like those changes were being undone, all of the up-till-then-silent fans who did like what had happened and were interested in seeing how those elements developed suddenly came out of the woodwork to complain. Truly, there is no pleasing everybody.

> Why should I get interested in other Marvel characters when a simple deal with Mephisto can re-write any development's made in their books? Or do the other Marvel characters have too much moral fibre to make the deal with the devil that Peter did.

Posted by randin on 2008-10-08 17:17:49>

Okay, this is a real magician’s-secret-pull-the-curtain-way-back sort of question, but you asked it and I’m going to answer it.

The Marvel Universe is fiction. Therefore, anything can happen at any time if the people in charge of creating that fiction so will it.

This isn’t something that anybody, creators, editors or fans, really wants to dwell on too much. But it’s absolutely true. If tomorrow, Marvel’s Board of Directors determined that Spider-Man should be a woman, a rapist, a two-headed alien from Mars or a pirate, then that is what would happen.

Now, there’s a basic compact between the readership and the readers in serial fiction of the sort that we do that amounts to, “The stories we’re telling you are valid. They exist and have consequences.” But that’s not such an absolute as we make it out to be. Because at the end of the day, this is a business as well as entertainment, and sometimes the two collide in ways that are artificial.

Bill Jemas used to talk about this phenomenon every once in a while, that the belief in our characters and this fictitious universe that had been created was so strong and so real to a portion of the readership that while they consciously understood that it’s all make-believe, on an emotional level it was related to as a real place with real history and real rules. “We’re not revealing the origin of Wolverine,” said Bill, “we’re making it up. Until we do that, there is no origin of Wolverine.” Consequently, during Bill’s regime, we did a whole slew of projects that didn’t jibe perfectly (or at all) with the previously-established continuity. And some of those turned out to be among the most popular things we’ve ever done.

There is nothing that’s done in a comic book that cannot be reversed, even if that reversal is nonsensical. The only hedge against it is a total collapse of your sales, and therefore your finances. You don’t need Mephisto to do this, he’s just a tool of the story.

Every generation of readers runs into this at some point. For my generation, it was probably the return of Jean Grey that put an exclamation point on this idea. The Death of Phoenix storyline was an acknowledged instant classic, released during a period when the deaths of major characters were seldom if ever later overturned. And yet, not five years later, Jean grey was back from the grave to help sell X-FACTOR.

But you know what? The Death of Phoenix is still an effective story, and when I read it again I don’t have to think about X-Factor or Jean coming back or any of that stuff. The work itself isn’t lessened by this, except within the larger context. There are certainly readers who can’t reconcile this, and I understand where they’re coming from. (We have a whole team of guys who work on our Marvel Handbooks who wrestle with this stuff all the time, trying to make pieces fit together that really don’t and can’t fit.) But all of this stuff is ephemeral. (The same thing is true of any other work of fiction. I have no idea what’s going to happen in J.J. Abrams’ new STAR TREK film, but I can guess that it’s going to overturn or rewrite or reinterpret material from the previous films and television shows. And it’s either going to be a good movie or a bad movie, regardless.)

You should care because the stories make you care. But this is fiction, not history, and all of it is mutable. That means that Elektra can live again, that Cyclops can cheat on his wife with his old enemy the White Queen, and that Iron Man can reveal his identity to the world, erase that knowledge, then reveal it again. But as long as the stories are compelling an affecting, then the experience is worthwhile.

The universe is there to serve the stories, the stories aren’t there to serve the universe.

More tomorrow.

Tom B

That wasn't my response to your question
And i quote:

"I asked yesterday what people thought we could do to address fan ire outside of the one thing we’re clearly not going to do, which is reverse the storyline, and the only answer I saw as of this morning amounted to, “Duh, reverse the storyline, jerkface!” There’s nothing I can do with that. That person is going to be angry about this no matter what, and it’s futile to try to address his problems, since there’s only one outcome that will satisfy him."

I was the one you directly asked that question to in the first instance, and that was most certainly not my response or my attitude towards your question to me.
Somebody else responded along the lines of that, but definitely not I.
So i rather hope this is corrected when it comes time to directly answering the responses, because i did actually put some thought into a constructive answer to your questionfor me, Tom.
Cheers.

Posted by aussie macca on 2008-10-16 10:20:29

" that Cyclops can cheat on his wife with his old enemy the White Queen " BOOOO!!!! :)

Posted by thomas more on 2008-10-16 10:33:00

I feel compelled to add
While not a regular in these parts, I must say that every time I do visit I am astounded by the volume (in multiple senses of the word) of OMD/BND hatred that still somehow continues to pollute the atmosphere a year later.

I have always been a huge Hulk fan, but I dislike every last drop of ink that has gone into the Red Hulk storyline. I think Loeb's run with the character has been a huge mistake. Guess how much time I spend on editors' message boards railing at them for it, haranguing them until they make him gray again and trying to prove some objective point about an imaginary life.

Is anyone else shocked and horrified by the lust for Aunt May's blood among commenters? Am I the only person online who had a mom? No one ever seems to be cognizant that May wasn't dying because she was old; she was dying because Peter's choices got her shot. This is a fellow who has some guilt issues as it is; he would have literally moved heaven and earth to keep from being responsible for her death, and he did. Nothing out of character about it.

Tom: the stories that have come out of "Brand New Day" and the book's overall direction have been outstanding. Thumbs up. Keep on keeping on. The twenty people who are here lobbing spitballs at you are quite likely the only twenty people anywhere who feel otherwise.

Posted by Jimski on 2008-10-16 10:45:35

Thanks Tom
While I don't agree with much of what you're writing, thanks for doing it and trying. It takes some guts to do that and deal with this level of hate and not just ignore people.

It's gonna be damn hard to avoid a Prowler issue with Dan Slott and JrJr, NWTD couldn't hook me but...that will be painful to pass up.

Posted by moral_d on 2008-10-16 10:48:13

Respect
Tom,

Once again I have to laud you for being so respectful and to let you know you have earned my respect. I do not agree with the direction of Spidey, but your explanations are straightforward and make me feel better about Marvel as a whole. I still don't buy ASM, but this has not kept me from enjoying other titles. I sincerely hope that one day I will be able to read ASM. Until then, I'll keep checking in here to see what is going on.

Thanks!

Posted by deadpool1977 on 2008-10-16 11:20:24

Spider-Man WOULD HAVE MADE THE DEAL WITH MEPH
Spidey is a hero, not because of the spider bite, but because his uncle was murdered. His guilt over his decisions made him a hero. To think that it was his actions that got Aunt May shot?! This is Uncle Ben's wife. These are the only 2 people that EVER CARED about Peter. That's it. And he is going to be the one that freakin' killed her? He won't let that guilt rest on his conscience. He had to make a deal with Mephisto.

Posted by pineappleprotein on 2008-10-16 11:26:45

This is insulting, and YOU Tom are full of it
Wow, what a shock, we're reading fiction!

That's it? That's the big mystery as to what gives you license to disrupt or rewrite history for fictional characters?

and as to you being full of it...there is NO way you believe this following statement is possible...

"This isn’t something that anybody, creators, editors or fans, really wants to dwell on too much. But it’s absolutely true. If tomorrow, Marvel’s Board of Directors determined that Spider-Man should be a woman, a rapist, a two-headed alien from Mars or a pirate, then that is what would happen."

This kind of hyperbole is dismissive to our legitimate constructive criticism.

We do not like the direction. You cannot ignore the direction you taken ASM, so clearly you cannot just undo BND. But there are ways to circle back without ignoring or undoing this change of direction.

We're not looking for blood when it comes to Aunt May, we just don't think the choice Spider-man was written into had to be so black and white.

To suggest that Mephisto was the potential avenue to resolution would likely indicate that there could have been a good-natured divine intervention. Fiction would allow for a wide variety of paths but it demands a natural progression.

Fiction follows a natural course of events building on itself from prior events.

Ban me or not post this if you feel the need to exercise your power to do so. But I'm fairly insulted, and you're statement is bogus.

Ugh.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 12:34:13

Tom, you have such a great way of answering questions!

Posted by marvelman123456 on 2008-10-16 12:51:08

This is how Spider-man ends
Not with a bang,

but with a whimper.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 12:55:06

"Bill Jemas used to talk about this phenomenon every once in a while, that the belief in our characters and this fictitious universe that had been created was so strong and so real to a portion of the readership that while they consciously understood that it’s all make-believe, on an emotional level it was related to as a real place with real history and real rules.
***
You should care because the stories make you care.
***
But as long as the stories are compelling an affecting, then the experience is worthwhile."

Uh-uh. The reason Marvel comics sell as well as they do is BECAUSE of that emotional investment in the decades-long tapestry that Jemas derided. You can't have it both ways. If you were really only selling your books on the basis of how good the stories are, they wouldn't sell any better than independent comics. You guys know this full well.

"I asked yesterday what people thought we could do to address fan ire outside of the one thing we’re clearly not going to do, which is reverse the storyline, and the only answer I saw as of this morning amounted to, “Duh, reverse the storyline, jerkface!”

Ok, if this is an honest question, I'll take a crack at it. "New Ways to Die" is a good start with bringing back Osborn and Brock, but you need to go further. There needs to be a stronger mix of new and old, with more stories that touch on ALL eras of Spider-Man history (yes, including the Clone Saga and its characters; Ben Reilly, Kaine, etc). This will reassure readers that while you did eliminate the marriage, you are not trying to sweep the past 20 years under the rug. I think this is a pretty reasonable desire on the part of fans who grew up reading in those years, and not toxic or unfeasible (though I agree addressing the miscarriage would be).

Posted by CylverSaber on 2008-10-16 13:01:28

Insulting and ridiculous
"This isn’t something that anybody, creators, editors or fans, really wants to dwell on too much. But it’s absolutely true. If tomorrow, Marvel’s Board of Directors determined that Spider-Man should be a woman, a rapist, a two-headed alien from Mars or a pirate, then that is what would happen."

Really?

You can not possibly believe this. Read this out loud to yourself.

Find the first person you see and say these words to them and look at their honest response.

Balderdash.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 13:06:25

The response
"I asked yesterday what people thought we could do to address fan ire outside of the one thing we’re clearly not going to do, which is reverse the storyline, and the only answer I saw as of this morning amounted to, “Duh, reverse the storyline, jerkface!”

A few ideas off of the top of my head:
- There should be no lingering mystery behind Brand New Day. If the air is still polluted with the stink of OMD and The Deal it's because of the fatuous mystery behind how it was accomplished and continuity teases regarding MJ's fate, the identity of Jackpot, and Harry's death. I think that BND would be a lot easier for some fans to stomach if it truly set up a new status quo and left the magical reset button behind. I do like some of the new stories but I am instantly pulled out of them once some mention is made of the "missing time." We all know Harry's back due to an editorial decision and not due to a worthwhile story point. The more you pick at the scab, the bigger it gets. Leave it alone and get on with telling good Spidey stories. Any mystery only exacerbates questions about continuity (The Other, Clones, and such) and is a meta-topic that adds nothing to the character. Kill it.

- Mephisto is behind Dark Reign. It would make sense that the Dark Lord might take interest in your flagship character if he was already waging a war against the MU. He could be responsible for Wanda's breakdown among other recent plot points and serve as the villain that he is instead of Pete's crisis of conscience and satanic pact.

Posted by hamgravy on 2008-10-16 13:06:47

and
- Putting Pete's Secret ID back under wraps was already accomplished with the Scarlet Spiders storyline in A:I. A year into BND I'd suggest actually using the Post-Civil War Pre-OMD continuity that was already in the works as a way of re-integrating the character with the MU at large rather than continue to be coy about some other magical solution.

Posted by hamgravy on 2008-10-16 13:11:02

Awesome!
I'm really loving this. Both the people freaking out and Tom taking the time to answer in an honest and thought-out fashion.

Oh - and JRJR on the Prowler: It's a natural fit! Wanna know why? HE CREATED the character! I know his father first drew him, but JRJR came up with the idea and JR SR put him in the story! :)

- Jamie

Posted by pmpknface on 2008-10-16 13:48:37

One of the things that bothered me the most about OMD/BND was that the Spider-man we read about right before OMD and the one we read about right after were essentially completely different characters. His entire situation was thrown out and a new one created with no explanation about what caused these changes. And now one year later there is STILL no explanation about why Harry is alive, why no one knows Peter is Spider-man, and why he has web shooters again.

I could almost stand BND if the changes were logical and well-explained, but the whole "What happened? Wait and see!!" method of storytelling makes the whole thing absolutely unbearable.

Posted by megamile15 on 2008-10-16 14:13:45

Fiction huh?
You said:

"This isn’t something that anybody, creators, editors or fans, really wants to dwell on too much. But it’s absolutely true. If tomorrow, Marvel’s Board of Directors determined that Spider-Man should be a woman, a rapist, a two-headed alien from Mars or a pirate, then that is what would happen."

This is complete lack of respect for your predecessors.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

But if we start calling a turd a "rose," its still a turd.

You are calling this turd, Spider-man.

Your statement basically says you could take any concept, call it Spider-man and we have to accept it.

Insulting and disrespectful.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 14:15:06

Is nothing sacred?

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 14:15:58

This is not Spider-man

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 14:18:01

*
I agree with megamile15 115%!

Posted by hamgravy on 2008-10-16 14:29:32

The original derailment
I'm part of the majority of fans that like the return of the character to its roots. As such I don't need to express my views so much. After all the internet is for complaining and I have one complaint. You quote Alex Alonso's editorial preference over returning Gwen Stacy, possibly hoping to appear as the lesser of two evils to complainers. Undoing the marriage was bold but you didn't remove the event that derailed the series: that event was the death of Gwen Stacy. That event is what made MJ and Peter so close. Complainers complain because they understand that Pete's history post Gwen Stacy's death leads inevitably to a Pete MJ couple. I wonder what arguments you could have made to prevent it from happening. I understand that if your team didn't want it, there is point in doing it just as there is no point in keeping the marriage since no writer wants to write it.

Posted by leoparis on 2008-10-16 14:29:50

How bout this
Can we just get Ultimate Spider-man three times a week instead. Because this new Amazing Pseudo-man is not worth it.

Its a turd in a box, guaranteed.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 14:33:15

You're wrong when said this:

"This isn’t something that anybody, creators, editors or fans, really wants to dwell on too much. But it’s absolutely true. If tomorrow, Marvel’s Board of Directors determined that Spider-Man should be a woman, a rapist, a two-headed alien from Mars or a pirate, then that is what would happen."

As a matter of economics, this is nonsensical.

But it certainly revels a culture of indifference to fictional history and continuity.

What about our back issues?

Why even number the comics books anymore?

Everything should just be taken as a limited series with the same title?

How would the Amazing Rapist-man sell?

I don't get it.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 14:50:31

To get rid of some of the anger I would sujest having JQ and Wacker stop trying to anger fans. Everytime they do an interview the negativity is huge. Some, like yourself at Marvel know how to respond to fans even if you dont agree with them.

Reader will associate Spidey having been married, whether a divorce, break up or magic eraser removed it. It wont render spidey younger in the reader eyes, because he still associates the relationship in his mind. What makes him seem younger is the way he is being written, this could have been done regardless. But now he doesn't seem so much younger as he does inexperienced.

Instead of the DEAL could not things been accomplished over a longer period of time with good writting?

Was OMD an attempt to anger fans by starting a new status quo and refusing todeal with the holes till over a year later. I get the the whole, we want to get to the good stuff, but don't the fans deserve consideration FIRST before personal egos and creative decisons?

Posted by DS2008 on 2008-10-16 14:55:47

There was a time...
When comics published by Marvel were threaded together by a continuing storyline for each of its characters.

There would be editor's notes referencing an event in the past that had been mentioned or linked to by the current issue we are reading.

That was the culture, back issues mattered.

When we thought Doc Ock had perished we received an explanation upon his return. We were given a little respect as readers and we gave a good deal of leeway as the stories would sometimes get a little absurd.

Its all gone.

What assurance do we have that anything we read is connected to anything.

Oh and the five years rule implies to me that you can recycle stories and are completely indifferent to reader loyalty. Every five years you expect us to go away and a whole new set of readers will take up the mantle?

I don't have the resources to start my own publishing company and I don't own the rights to Spider-man, so this is the only option I have.

Just be a more respectful to continuity and the readers.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-16 15:32:12

EVERY BODY LIMBO
Reading Mr Brevoorts statments I think the best thing that can be done for unwanted plot points is to limbo them. That way their not persay controdicted but their also not getting in the way of telling the storys the writers want to tell. On the other hand those points are still their if some writer down the pike can make a good story out of them. Who knows their could be a great story about Peters clons waiting to be told till then spidy dose with them what I think is in his nature he makes jokes about em.

Posted by s-i-d-e-r-m-a-n on 2008-10-16 15:42:39

Alrighty...
This is getting good so far. :)

Once more, I must express gratitude that you are taking time out of your job/personal life to address the series of questions concerning Spider-Man.

I wonder... Is Deadpool under editorial authority, and if so, is there any chance of doing a Deadpool/Spider-Man cross-over?

Posted by Aziroth on 2008-10-16 16:25:50

Ooops!
I meant to ask whether or not Deadpool was under your editorial edict when asking about DP and Spidey.

Posted by Aziroth on 2008-10-16 16:27:35

Another question
First, not sure if you got this but... any plans for Darkhawk and Spidey to crossover again? Darkhawk was one of my favorites and he used to tag team with Spidey alot back in the day.

Secondly... Steven Colbert? In a Spidey story? Why?! Isn't that a little too much?

Posted by DRock1 on 2008-10-16 16:36:12

Just making sure...
You guys know that the Questions round is closed, right?

Posted by hamgravy on 2008-10-16 17:22:01

I saw a post on a message board by one of the Marvel Handbook writers saying he'd been told by Marvel that the miscarried baby had gone along with the marriage - is that the case? Your words on the matter seem to muddy things...

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-10-16 18:29:37

First of all, thank you for answering the questions.

"You should care because the stories make you care. (snip) But as long as the stories are compelling an affecting, then the experience is worthwhile."

But here is exactly my problem. I'm loving Captain America and Daredevil, but there is now a nagging thought in the back of my mind to not bother 'caring' about these stories because something as lame as the OMD storyline means that they have no relevance anymore. I know that you say that the events still occured but you cannot deny that they are no longer "relevant'. As a result the experience is certainly not worthwhile.

"Which makes perfect sense when you think about it, in that, in a world in which Peter was never married, there wouldn’t have been a deal with Mephisto in the first place—there would have been nothing to bargain for."

So if you take that to the next stage and all the stories still happened and May was shot but Peter didn't have the marriage to sell, then what happened? May obvously died in that storyline, so why is she still gracing the pages of ASM?

Posted by randin on 2008-10-16 18:37:05

Thank you Tom
I just read your responce to my questions in day four's column. I just wanted to say thank you for your complete and honest answers. You've made me more comfortable with omd certainly and the possibility of me coming back to Spiderman is something I'm considering.

Thank you for not being condecending.... thank you for respecting us fans Tom. I believe in Marvel.

Posted by NinjaDan2000 on 2008-10-16 20:12:24

hey tom
thanks for a great blog, and great explanations and insights. hopefully even the people who vehemently disagree with your answers appreciate the time and thought you put into this!

Posted by Tinsmith on 2008-10-16 22:44:51

randin, you hit the nail right on the head. Its hard to care about any major change in a comic now because you always have to wonder if there's something right around the corner that will undo it instantly. OMD made the whole experience of reading comics a lot less fun for me.

Posted by megamile15 on 2008-10-16 23:07:23

Any more potential Ben Reilly stories?
I have been a Ben Reilly fans for years. The Clone Saga is something that I have read in the last few years (well, issues I can get my hands on that is). I am excited about the upcoming Ben Reilly story in the X-Men/Spider-Man mini-series.
So, as the topic of my post says, are there any more Ben Reilly stories in the works?? Most likely they would be "untold tales".
On another point, why is there an omnibus of the Clone Saga in French and not an English version? I have seen it on Amazon (a simple Google search helped) and was wondering why the French speaking world gets one, and not the English (or any other language) speaking world does not...

Posted by Nova#1 on 2008-10-17 01:06:26

general comments and comments
Regarding OMD/BND: great stuff so far, the new direction is fantastic. New Ways to Die was great, I hated to waiting so long for that last part, but the wait was worth it. I keep reading complaints that a hero making a deal with the devil it is out of character. When I consider all that Peter had gone through in the years prior to OMD, I really think that it was a choice that the character wouold make. By that I mean that Peter would not have made that choice in High School, but the Peter that had just gone through House of M, the Civil War, and his aunt getting shot, would have.
I am a child of the clone saga, and would love to see the return of some of the characters from that time like Kaine and Ben Reilly.
When will we finally see little Normie again?
Any chance of seeing art by Luke Ross now that he is back, I loved his work toward the end of SPEC?

Posted by jwemly on 2008-10-17 01:53:25

Spider-Man/Nightcrawler
I was wondering if there was any chance that Nightcrawler might be guest starring in Amazing Spider-Man? These two characters seem like a no brainer for a team-up. Yes, I realise that the two characters will probably interact in the second issue of the upcoming X-Men/Spider-Man mini but I would love to see the spotlight on just the two of them.

Posted by rialb on 2008-10-17 05:34:26

seriously, you guys
Tom was clearly being melodramatic to make a point with his quote:
"This isn’t something that anybody, creators, editors or fans, really wants to dwell on too much. But it’s absolutely true. If tomorrow, Marvel’s Board of Directors determined that Spider-Man should be a woman, a rapist, a two-headed alien from Mars or a pirate, then that is what would happen."
That obviously isn't something that would really happend because the fans would undoubtedly reject such a change and the company itself. I think, and maybe I'm wrong, that Tom's just trying to make the point that Marvel is a company, and like any other company, it has a group of people that can ultimately make a decision with no regard to the rest of the staff. It's very unlikely that the group would do such a thing, since that's why the rest of the staff is there - to oversee the intricacies of the company - but the they could. Also like any other company, Marvel exists to make a profit. While I don't doubt that Tom appreciates having a relationship with the fans and absolutely works to incorporate the fans into the direction of the work, I also don't doubt that Marvel would shut down if it stopped making money - there's no way Marvel would put out a product that was only costing money; it's not a charity. So maybe try and understand that Marvel is a giant comic company, and while that's great for the fans in that it allows its merchandise to be international and for other media to gain access to their ideas, it's also unfortunate in that it has the same ultimate restrictions of a governing board and of a budget.
Thanks!

Posted by Zelda on 2008-10-17 08:29:03

Wow, lots of agita around here!
"The universe is there to serve the stories, the stories aren’t there to serve the universe."

That should be a sig file. Absolutely great way of summing all this up, and speaking to a certain mindset in fan circles, specifically online, that needs so badly to insist otherwise.

Also--- and I don't remember which poster(s?) were on about this, but the idea that the "Devil is Real" or whatever misses the point. The devil may be part of some people's religious mythology, and therefore real to them in some sense. But Mephisto, the red-skinned guy in a cape and loincloth, is a fictional character. Right?

coolhanddave---- you seem a little upset. It's hard to get a true read on your tone from your posts, but it's hard to ignore their frequency and vitrol. What I don't get is how you can so definitively say "This isn't Spider-Man," etc. --- because it's not objective fact in any way. It's your opinion. (Not one I share, incidentally.) To me, this IS Spider-Man, and a very good take on him at that. Your mileage may vary, obviously--- but it's frustrating to come on this boards from time to time and read the same frothing rants presuming to speak for all Spidey fans.

Posted by Gentleman Jack on 2008-10-17 11:17:58

I'm finished
My father took me to the Forbidden Planet when it was still near the Roosevelt Island Cable Car on 59th between 3rd and 2nd. That was the beginning. A shared love for a hobby between father and son. I've continued on and off, but quite diligently during the off periods.

Issues I own, counting annuals:

Amazing Spider-man: 542
Spec. Spider-man: 281
Web of Spider-man: 140
Spider-man(1990): 97
PP Spider-man (1999): 60
Ultimate Spider-man: about 230, two of each
Miscellaneous Spider-man issues: around 200

Total, roughly 1550 - just Spider-man

Counting for inflation this collection likely cost $7,000-8,000 but is reasonably worth (assuming book value) about $20,000 or so.

Assuming I spent 10 minutes reading each one, that's a total of 15,500 minutes

258 hours

Nearly 11 days. I couldn't begin to estimate the number of hours I've spent reorganizing and bagging each of them...Silver Age bag with a silver age board and a current age board behind the silver age one for extra support.

This has been literature that I believe has shaped me in my formative years and provided a significant link to my past.

But I think the idea of making this character so easily malleable and transfigured has created the other bookend to my hobby. It was a passion I renewed at issue #30 of ASM. I saw that cover and was pulled in again. I was compelled to fill the gap of issues between now and when I had given it up for what most 14 year olds give up there childhood hobbies for.

I had gone back and purchased a lot of issues on e-bay and a whole bunch more at Earthworld Comics in Albany, NY while I was in grad school.

I started up an account at Midtown Comics when I started law school here in Queens.

I believed I had amassed something of an heirloom to pass on for generations, like an original copy of Cervantes' Don Quixote.

And now I'm giving it up again.

It is my opinion, but this is NOT Spider-man. I feel like I am reading a fairly recognizable DC character that I've never read before, like the Flash or Green Lantern.

It doesn't feel right.

I don't care about it anymore. It makes me sad to think about it, but I'm moving on.

You don't have to make mine anymore Marvel. I'm finished.

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-10-17 14:55:59

coolhanddave
hey dude, turn out the light and lock the door on your way out wontcha? Good chap!

Posted by eamonmcgrane on 2008-10-19 18:42:13

The Other
"After it came out, it seemed like nobody in creation liked “The Other” or the changes it wrought—but as soon as it seemed like those changes were being undone, all of the up-till-then-silent fans who did like what had happened and were interested in seeing how those elements developed suddenly came out of the woodwork to complain. Truly, there is no pleasing everybody."

Tom - there's still NO ONE who likes The Other! I think the complaints were largely along the lines of a lot of the same ones that have dogged BND; people getting upset about elements of continuity (even if they're lousy) that are introduced and then forgotten about or ignored. In the case of The Other it was all ignored pretty much immediately, or unexplained (the stingers?).

In any case, personally speaking I am damn glad it all went away!

Posted by Moorish on 2008-10-21 09:03:10

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