I used to be a completist
I bought sooooo many terribly written and drawn comics because of it. I now collect over 40 titles, but I realize that I don't have enough interest in some of them, despite not being behind on any reading.

If I totally don't enjoy a series, I'll cut it instantly. If it's solid, but not brilliant, I usually hang on, but may drop it over time. To come back, all it takes is the right artist. I'd be back in a heartbeat.

When I try out a new series, I usually give it 3-4 issues to grab me before I decide to have it added to my pull list.


Posted by Dusty. on 2008-12-16 17:37:37
It depends on what the change is. If the creative team stays the same, but some other element of the book changes, I'm pretty tolerant; if I've had faith in the creators this long, I'm willing to see where they're going, and may stick with the book up to 6 more months, depending on how much I have enjoyed their prior work.

If it's a new creative team, and I don't like their first issue, that's it; money's too short to spend on bad comics.

As for what gets me back; obviously when it's an issue of creative team, the simple thing to get me back would be to put on a creative team I like. When it's some other element of the book I'm not crazy about, it's a little trickier; usually it will take positive reviews from people who disliked what I disliked, but under certain cases, when its something I feel strongly enough about (such as the return of Quasar in the pages of Nova), simply hearing about that will be enough to get me to give the book another chance.

Two more examples; I swore off Avengers, previously one of my favorite franchises, in the wake of Disassembled. But Dan Slott, along with a more appealing roster, has gotten me to give Mighty Avengers a try. And if Ben Reilly was to return to ASM, that would be enough to get me over the disenchantment with the magical reboot.

Posted by CylverSaber on 2008-12-16 18:55:02
I guess it takes me about three issues to give up on something. It could take me years to come back, if I ever do. Something like RIP in Batman. I dropped it again and probably won't pick it up until there is a new man under the mask.

Posted by kyle-latino on 2008-12-16 20:36:36
I am another former completist who currently only purchases books that I plan to read and enjoy.

As far as trying out new books goes... Usually some kind of 'buzz', either internet or advertisement in my LCS, will grab my attention and get me to try a new book. I'll usually try a book for 3 to 6 months before I decide to add it to my pull list or drop it. Brubaker's Daredevil and Fraction's Iron Man are examples of two books I recently tried and enjoyed. Trinity is an example of a book I recently tried that failed to grab my interest.

As for leaving a beloved title... yes I am one of those 'old timers' who followed Spider-man through thick and thin for 30 years, but was driven away by Brand New Spider-man. The alteration of 20 years of Spider-man's history and the associated character regression left me with a Brand New Spider-man who bore only a passing resemblance to the character I had followed and enjoyed for over 30 years. And I was just unable to develop any kind of emotional attachment to this Brand New Spider-man.

What could get me to return to ASM?
1. Well my preferred choice would be the return of the historic Spider-man. If I discovered that the Spider-man who I had followed for over 30 years were to return I would be badk to buying ASM in a minute.
2. Another option is to develop a hook that would enable me to develop an attachment to Brand New Spider-man and overcome my fondness for the historic Spider-man. I actually considered giving NWTD a shot, but the 'buzz' wasn't enough to get me over the hump.

Posted by tomek97 on 2008-12-16 20:47:15
Nothing
I don't think there is anything now a days that would bring me back into the fold. There has been so much change (damage) to the heroes of my youth that unless someone said "It is 1980 again" I don't think I shall ever return. That is why I am enjoying the Essential, Showcase and Classic volumes so much. I am catching up on stories I missed the first time around. At a good price.

Posted by DreamTheater001 on 2008-12-16 21:03:31
Let's see, I started collecting ASM with the "Wedding Annual" because I distinctly remember seeing an advertisement for it on TV (would love to see that commercial again if it still exists somewhere). I recall some kids in tuxedoes humming the tune to "here comes the bride" and carrying candled, and also a picture of the newsstand and direct variant covers of the Wedding Annual. I went out and bought it and was hooked. Then, I dropped ASM when Todd McFarlane had been replaced by Eric Larsen, and writer David Michelinie was running out of steam on the title at about that time, as well. I probably bought six to eight more issues before I dumped it. It was the clone saga that actually brought my interest back so I started picking up the book again. I started to dump the title again after MJ was made to miscarry. I kept on collecting for several months because they kept dropping "hints" that the baby might sill be alive, but when it became obvious that these hints were just a ploy to string along readers and keep us from having a "jumping off point" at the conclusion of the clone saga, I dumped ASM for good. Haven't collected it since. I picked up Spider-Girl when it came out and have been with it ever since.

Posted by Mardochaeus LXX on 2008-12-16 21:10:45
No hard and fast rule
No hard and fast rule for me. A lot of it depends on how much I like the characters/writer/artist and what happens in the new direction.

I don't know when i stopped buying Spider-Man regularly, but I did. Same with Captain America. No real reason, just didn't seem that exciting to me (this must have been in the 90s). I didn't hate the titles and did pick up the title here and there but not regularly. Started getting interested in Spidey again via Civil War. Giving BND a try and so far, while it isn't my #1 pick, it is good enough to keep buying. If I lose interest again, I would probably stop. Started picking up Cap again just before his death. The subsequent stories have been so good that I keep on. A big creative change would probably have to happen before I dump it.

Other titles were reactions to changes. For instance, dropped Avengers (my favorite title) during Heroes reborn. Good thing there were the Thunderbolts. Started reading the Avengers again when when Heroes Return started up. Stopped buying Thunderbolts when "Fight Club TB" started up. Came back when they reverted back to something less dreastic.

I often give a title 4-6 issues to see if I like it. However, if I find it to be too awful, I will dump it earlier.

Posted by beta-ray on 2008-12-16 21:28:36
I have mainly collected Spider-Man, Hulk and Iron Man as far as Marvel Titles go, I still collect Hulk and Iron Man. I gave up on Spidey twice now, I came back the first time around the Spider Totem stuff after about two years of not reading. What had got my interest was my locak dealer going on about the bold direction and interesting things that were going on with Spidey.

I stopped the second time after BND, and the reaction to fans by the new writers and staff, to those like myself who were not happy with the direction.

What would make me come back? I'll admit finally having some answers and the plot filled in coming up sounded interesting (Wich could have been done a year ago). But with continuing comments from SOME of those invalved with the comic, not to mention the recent comments made in the "Spider-Man Roundtable" to those not agreeing etc, tell me you dont want my money and for me not to bother coming back.

IF I do it means 2 things have happened, the stories are interesting, well explained etc and I have decided within myself to enjoy the stories regardless of how I feel towards those writing it.

Posted by MattDS on 2008-12-16 21:45:22
its all about content/storytelling
i want good stories. i don't care who the characters are (though some characters i'm convinced are less interesting than others, in general), i want a good story.

i usually will drop after a creative team leaves unless i read ahead from the new guys and feel that they will continue the spirit of the book, or seem to take it in an exciting direction (whedon after morrison, david after slott, brubaker after bendis, etc). when the new team doesn't have a clear aim, or talks about "classic stories" without really setting a vision, i tend to lose interest and will not even give them a shot - thats when it goes to "if its good i'll trade it" mode. i do get quite a few trades based on word-of-mouth. i will easily pick up a book after i've dropped it (numerous times with x-men over the years), but try to just collect the stories i'm interested in - i can pick up the inbetween parts online.

Posted by stuckinazkaban on 2008-12-16 23:29:33
Upon multiple seconds of thought...
Wow, I really haven't dropped that many titles that I started reading. There was a period of time when I felt like the stories were getting so crappy that I stopped reading comic books for a while, but to fill in the void I started reading Newsarama, CBR, and others to get my information as to what was going on. At the time, and upon further reflection I still do believe, albeit a little less, that the actual stories themselves, not the brilliance of the writing, nor the fantastic artwork, but just the stories being told were so damned awful that I finally entered that stage where I believed I could write a better story then the one's I was reading, and just stopped purchasing comic books altogether. Creative teams came and went during the time, but I just stopped and didn't plan on returning. Mid-stories, just stopped. I can deal with artwork that I don't like, I'm not god, I don't get to decide those things. But the stories, the direction of the X-titles, ugh...)
(In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have just stopped reading everything altogether, maybe just the one's I didn't like because finding the books to re-read when I came back to the fold was a pain in the ass.)
However, it wasn't until... Awww hell, it was Civil War and Messiah Complex. Newsarama and CBR (I'd graduated from IGN) started getting really in-depth in their coverage of Marvel Comics, specifically Civil War, and well, my curiosity became piqued. (Is that the correct spelling?) So, before Christmas, the year of the TPB release, I figured what the hell, and instead of passing the comic book store like I'd grown accustomed to for a while, I turned in and asked the clerk (a real holier than thou ***** bag if I remember correct) and he just told me "Yeah, it was good. You want it?", and that was that. Did I wait till Christmas? Hell no, if I remember correctly I was late to the bars because I read it when I got home. (duh...) It was good, and sure enough, I slowly but surely came back. CBR and Newsarama's (as well as IGN too I might add in this instance) reporting made me attempt to try out a few other series (some aren't Marvel, Fables is awesome!) and most were fantastic. But after a while, ya see... Look I hadn't started reading the X-titles again yet. It was those stories that made me go cold turkey, and I hadn't started reading them again. (I say them because you can't just read 1 X-title...) Then the rumblings of Messiah Complex began right before Blinded by the Light, and the news websites were beginning to go crazy with anticipation, and well... I was sold. Picked it up, felt great about it, haven't really been let down yet.
In conclusion, It's the quality of the stories themselves that well keep me hooked or make me jump ship, and if the news websites can count as word-of-mouth, then it was the word-of-mouth that made me come back.
I can't go without saying one thing. There is an incredibly popular title book that I purchase each month, and have read all the issues by its writer, that I'm honestly, just not a fan of. But, and here's the ironic thing, I have absolutely no desire to drop it at all, I'm hooked I guess. I don't like it very much, I think the story is drawn out and the artwork really isn't my cup of tea, but I'll be damned if its not the first or second book I've been reading every trip to the store. I'm hooked and I don't even like it! Comic books, it's a helluva drug. (I am so glad there is not a word-limit on here.)

Posted by thomas more on 2008-12-17 00:36:44
i gotta mention this too. Mr. John Byrne has a few words to say. Head on over to Byrne Robotics and find out.

Posted by thomas more on 2008-12-17 00:50:58
My attachments to Marvel Comics, and Spider-Man in general, have always been built upon a loyalty to the long-running continuity...to the sense that I was "in" on watching these characters grow. It's an illusion I maintained for 34 years. As I continued to watch Spider-Man grow, and as other Marvel characters interwove into his life, I expanded what I purchased, until I was buying 18-20 comics per month, almost entirely from Marvel. There was an implied trust there...I will suspend disbelief and commit myself to these characters and this universe, and, in turn, Marvel will keep their saga going unmolested.

Until OMD, the only time Marvel violated that trust in that entire 34-year run...and thus the only other time I dropped Spider-Man...was during the clone saga. Suspension of disbelief intact, I embraced Ben Reilly as the Scarlet Spider and would have gladly bought new books featuring him. But the Marvel powers-that-be, in their zeal to undo the timeline, marriage, and reality to which I'd been committed since 1973/4, broke the line and tried to erase that reality, saying that I'd been reading about a clone for 15-20 years rather than the real deal and then trying to send MY guy out to pasture. They viewed Spider-Man's marriage as "baggage" and were trying to "fix" something that wasn't broken...something that was, on the contrary, profoundly important to me and countless others. I hung on until it became clear that Marvel meant to make this permanent...when Peter and Mary Jane left the book in Ben Reilly's charge after the "Time Bomb" storyline. It took me only that one issue to decide to drop the title. How quickly did I come back? Truthfully, I never would have, except that Marvel undid that retcon and brought back the guy that I cared about. The day Peter and Mary Jane returned to the book...even before Peter was officially declared "the real deal" again...I began buying.

Yes, there was one other time I considered dropping the title. It was during a year-or-more-long span in the 80's or 90's during which every issue seemed to just be some mindless slugfest with assassins and gang wars. With lots of fighting but no real character development, it seemed aimed toward violence-prone Rambo-lovers. I gave it quite a number of months and found it becoming less and less interesting to me. But that was a sloooooow deterioration of interest. And, after only one month of not buying, I realized that I cared too much for the character to leave him behind, so I continued my buying patterns and, not long afterward, a change in writers brought back the character development and my interest was restored.

Since the clone saga, there has been significant development in Spider-Man's world, both with his wife, his friends, his job and co-workers, his fellow superheroes, his aunt, his powers, and more. With that increased depth and rich saga development, my devotion to him and to the universe he inhabits (both within and outside the Spider-Man books) intensified. And I trusted that Marvel would never try to undo what I'd cared about again...that they understood the sacred responsibility they had to not molest the timeline and the history the readers were, by proxy, a part of.

And then came One More Day. Despite Mr. Quesada's two-year rant against Spider-Man's marriage and his pronouncement that the marriage was one of the three "genies" he wanted to stuff back in the bottle, I hoped, perhaps in vain, that history would not repeat itself and that this was just showmanship-like bluster...that he would never truly allow such a colossal mistake to occur. The marriage was too much a part of this book...it was at the heart of Peter Parker's character development over the years. But Marvel did it anyway. They forced bizarre, uncharacteristic behavior and situations on Peter Parker and his cast in order to maneuver him into position for One More Day, and then they forced the marriage and the timeline to be demolished. In an INSTANT, Marvel managed to completely eradicate the emotional ties I had to this book and the Marvel Universe. The implied contract that I'd entered into with Marvel...I trust them to continue the forward saga and they can trust that they will have my dollars and loyalty, and my child's future dollars, for as long as we live...was severed. It didn't take me a few issues to decide to leave...the saga was so severely truncated that there was really nothing that could interest me. It's not just for some random Spider-Man story that I was reading this book...it was for the continuous saga and for the joy of experiencing his development, and Marvel eliminated all that.

Amazing Spider-Man was cancelled the day ASM #545 hit the fan, and, since then, I have stopped purchasing nearly every Marvel. Leaving the entire Marvel Universe has been more slow-going, as it's hard to walk away from an entire universe to which you have, for most of your life, been devoted. But Spider-Man and his universe was my anchor, my tether, to all things Marvel...without that, I could no longer find a fulfilling experience in Marvel's books. I still purchased the rest of Secret Invasion, as it was a storyline that predated OMD. I am currently only down to Ultimate Spider-Man (which is where I can truly appreciate single Spider-Man...though truthfully, due to my waning interest in all things Marvel, even THAT has lost some of its luster, even though it's set in an alternate universe, and it may soon get chopped from my purchasing list as well) and Amazing Spider-Girl (which, sadly, I won't follow into the Amazing Spider-Man Family book after ASG is cancelled, as I am not interested in the bittersweet experience of also being exposed to any post-OMD content in the book).

What would it take to bring me back? Well, here's what won't do it:

* Bringing different writers or artists can't bring me back...for example, I loved Roger Stern back in the day, but if he's writing a universe that has replaced the one for which I cared, I can't care.

* Writing good stories and drawing good art. I'm sure there are good stories and good art in comic books by some of the less-powerhouse companies, but I'm not interested in their sagas, so I don't buy. And I'm not interested in this restarted Spider-Man saga...I'm interested in the REAL (in my experience) one. And any good story and good art that can be produced in the post-OMD universe could, with only minor tweaks, also be produced if the original timeline were to be restored.

* Showing new developments in BND Peter's life. Everything now feels unreal...I can no longer suspend my disbelief enough to read this book, as nothing really seems to matter when the real timeline has been supplanted. I don't care about Peter's new job. Seeing him date someone when I know he really moved forward and is married, frankly, disgusts me, and it cannot possibly lead to the relationship depth and progress that readers were treated to prior to OMD with Peter's marriage. Seeing MJ sleep around with someone else and calling that person "Tiger" is gross. Nothing -- feels -- real. And, while I know it's just a fictional universe, there's no point in visiting that universe if you can't envelop yourself in it while you're there.

* Explaining some of the missing information from the gap between OMD and BND. I don't care about this replacement timeline. So I don't care about why Harry Osborn is back, or why Peter's powers development has apparently disappeared. And I certainly don't want to hear about "what REALLY happened on Peter and Mary Jane's wedding day." I KNOW what really happened. To explain what happened in this new timeline feels like either a twist of the knife or just one big "What If" tale. I loved "What If", mind you...but it cannot replace the timeline as published for over 45 years.

* Having Peter and Mary Jane begin to date again as boyfriend and girlfriend. One big rehash. That's what it all feels like. You can't truncate a character's development and rewind and expect people to go along for the ride a second time. It's just not that fun anymore.


What WOULD it take to bring me back? It's really pretty simple.

* A humble "mea culpa" and a complete restoration of the original timeline, marriage included.

When they reversed the clone saga and brought Peter and MJ back despite the publisher's original intentions, the humility and "stones" it took to do that was all I needed. I came back and even bought all the back issues that had been published in my absence. The truth is, I very much WANT to be a Marvel Comics reader and a Spider-Man reader (as do many of the other estranged readers). But that is contingent upon the timeline being the one to which I faithfully stayed committed for decades, and it is contingent upon the restoration of the many ways Peter Parker grew over the years, which means that the evolved marriage that Marvel wants to send out to pasture is restored to Peter Parker's world...and not erased the moment it returns. I cannot return otherwise...it feels like a betrayal of the characters and the evolution I cherished for all those years, and, frankly, it isn't "holding out", because not buying in the replacement timeline is really not all that difficult. However, the day the marriage and the timeline return is the day I begin to purchase Amazing Spider-Man again, and, as the trust develops over a few months, I will begin to again gradually increase the number of non-Spider-Man books I buy. The economy has nothing to do with it, nor do I need a trial period before returning to the fold.

If the Marvel Universe...make that the Spider-Man universe, including the marriage that is the very symbol of Peter Parker's character growth...were to once again become the one that I have made a part of my family for many years...well, you don't turn your back on your real family, even after a period of estrangement and even in tough financial times.

THAT is my absolutely honest answer, Mr. Brevoort. If Marvel takes that leap of faith in restoring everything OMD took away, I will gladly and immediately make that leap of faith to return to Marvel's, and Spider-Man's, universe.



Posted by jeffgamer on 2008-12-17 00:59:57
Coolhanddave, where are you?

Posted by thomas more on 2008-12-17 02:14:22
What does it take for me to drop a loved title? A change of creative team usually does it. I'll give a new team an issue or two. If I really LOVE a title, I'll give it more time. (I've read a LOT of bad Excalibur stories!)

I dropped She-Hulk once Slott left. Not because Peter David was bad, but I was more a fan of Slott's writing than the character per se.

I dropped Ms Marvel for sheer financial reasons - too many other good titles in a tough economic time.

Alternatively, I dropped Runaways, Captain America and Daredevil because I now collect them in trades (they hold up better over time).

What makes me come back? Civil War got me back into reading monthly comics again (I didn't want to wait for the trades). Sadly Secret Invasion has had the opposite effect, and I'm dropping a lot of titles now that it's done - complete burn out. Other than that - a new creative team will get me to look at a title again, or a long, critically acclaimed run (like Cap America or Daredevil) will get me to give a title a second look.

Posted by NewChad on 2008-12-17 04:42:29
The only Marvel title that I am a completist on is Iron Man. The only time I dropped the title was mid-way in volume 3, when Keron Grant came on as artist during "The Big Bang Theory." I really didn't lke his art and dropped it after 2 issues of it.

I picked the book back up the "'Nuff Said" issue. So all told it was about, what, 6 months that I could hold out on not getting my Iron fix? Of course, when I tracked down the issues later, Grant's artwork didn't bother me as much, and the work Frank Tieri was doing was really cool!

Posted by ljacone on 2008-12-17 07:07:41
Winning Back
At one time, when I was in my teens, I picked up a good dozen or two issues simultaneously. Again, it was cheaper then, and I didn't have anything else to spend my income on. I chose the specific issues because I liked the characters. I wasn't all that much into creator fixations, I just liked who I liked, even if the current team was dragging them through the mud a little.

I also came back around Civil War when things were getting more interesting in comics. However, the only book I currently keep up with is the Fantastic Four. They also happen to be the only books I have left from my young days. While I did do a little "I'm not happy with the current creative team" bit before the current group, I'm frankly not all that sure it really matters that much to me who is writing them. I'm even a little afraid that listening to other people complain about writing/art teams online is what led me to do the same, anyway.

Honestly, I really like the characters. I also can see art/story decisions from many angles, where much can be forgiven. It also seems to me that, these days, creative teams really don't last that long on a book, so if the character's are enough to rope me in then I'll probably stay no matter what.

Although there are exceptions. Some of the b-listers I love (like Ghost Rider) can get creators with wildly differing ideas on how to write them, enough to turn me off. But those are usually whole series runs, as the books are typically canceled and restarted over and over. So I just wouldn't pick up that book to begin with.

On the creative side, I absolutely love much of the writing of the Ultimate universe and try to keep up with some of the books simply because they're so well-written.

But those aside, in focus just on the larger, long-time running series, it's the characters that win me over, not whomever is pulling their strings for the current 1/3 of a year.

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-12-17 08:46:11
Awwww, will I get flowers too?
I am also a completist. It takes alot for me to drop a book and most recently, that has been Amazing Spider-Man. When I picked up ASM #545 at my LCS, I went out to my jeep and read it. I was so excited to read the conclusion. I read it and went right back into my LCS and took ASM off my pull list. I weathered the Clone Saga. I love to have every issue, even variants of a title. BUT that was it, just like magic, my days of collecting Spider-man were over. Atleast I had Amazing Spider-Girl to look forward to, but NO, I don't even have that.
Today, I stand on the edge of dropping ALL my Marvel titles due to OMD and the behavior of the editorial staff in interviews. Yeah, I read the new interview in Wizard #207. It is one thing to do all these things to a character I love, but inciting fans in interviews and blogs...That is not professional. I am one of your customers and I deserve to be treated better.
What will bring me back to any of your comics? RESTORE Spider-Man. I don't even want an apology. I just want him back. I know the 30 or so titles I bought a month is only a drop in the bucket, but there are more like me out there, and eventually those drops amount to something.

Posted by deadpool1977 on 2008-12-17 11:02:35
How long will I hold out? I don't know. The few times I had to quit collecting a title it was because either it was no longer available or my store stopped carrying it. I've come close, such as The Order when it came out (it got really bad, then really good by issue #3 or #4, then the last issue I thought was hugely rushed), The New Exiles and Amazing Spiderman during the BND period. I guess I'll use ASM as a yardstick. I usually gave it three issues to get better or else I would drop it entirely. Sometimes I gave it four. And just when I was about to drop it... a great issue came out, I said darn it, and I kept going.

Therefore, my limit is 3 issues for a bad or unknown series, 6 issues for a series I'm loyal to. But for the most part I tend to stick until the bitter end.

Now what brings me back? I'll use Civil War as an example, because that's what got me back into Marvel after a dozen years (and it's the only example I have). What brought me back was a big, universe moving event that has relevance to the Marvel U. So I guess what would bring me back is sort of a turning point in the Marvel U or in the character. It could be a new writer, or a new direction, but what gets my attention is the big event.

Now mind you, doesn't mean it will work all the time. Keep doing such a stunt and it becomes less eye grabbing, y'know what I mean?



Posted by DRock1 on 2008-12-17 11:25:21
to the end of time (... )
I have to say that I didn't understand really your question.
Considering a preview topic about the 'trade-spirit of writing', because once you had seen some story-arcs collected, you can feel a kinda full-of-nothing impression, because of a lot of commercial criterias :
- every title can be your first comic-book, it have to explains the constant recycling of plots and writing characterisation, which is good if you actually jump in the train for the first time but very not if you're a long time follower.
I understand perfectly when Axel Alonso said that ' he loves every SINGLE book that Marvel is publishing' because I feel barely the same. Same for DC titles. Same for independant titles. If I could spend my life reading comics, I'll do. I love comics and I owe it to Marvel and DC. If I could read the Marvel Kids books, I'll do, it could give me a look about stuffs I didn't see at this age, if I could read all Marvel books and take a look about this and this direction about a character, I'll do as well; I even barely enjoy the inner continuity that makes you jump from a book to another when you're sure that you will not find what you want in a previous one, but surely in another.
Fiction is a wonderful leg toward the real life, sometimes you have to accept that some book is not for you anymore, sometimes there's just YOUR book awaiting you.
Jumping also from a publisher to another made me read wonderful stories to which I certainly hadn't gone spontaneously, makes me think now that I can almost read everything because I'd been trained to decypher so much different styles of drawing and writing, this and the fact that I'm persuaded that there's always something good in every thing. So I don't drop a title like that, until I'm sure that I know I can live without.
Maybe I used to, I loved the Walt Simonson's run on Thor, and didn't like the Frenz take-on just after.Now I can say that the run of Frenz is absolutely not without qualities but it wasn't what I expected after Simonson, it feeled like a regression after the best revamp ever.I had been surprised with the Clone-Saga but I couldn't avoid that it was a wonderful tour de force onto the character. If Peter Parker has to not survive to his devilish deal and Reily had to come back, I'm ready for it, and I will read religiously the story of Peter, his last one.
Re-considering your question, I don't know if I want to help you to make your comics more addictive, I'll just say ' surprise me ', or 'continue to tell stories'.

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-12-17 12:22:40
(...) TO INFINITY AND BEYOND !
The only thing I could say is that I'had prefered to read 'Quicksilver: the quick and the dead' and Layla Miller's story in the future, as 'Nightcrawler : Quitting Time' into the pages of 'X-Factor' and 'X-Men' , but I don't know if you want to hear that.

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-12-17 12:30:53
Thanks for the question, Tom.

Right now, with money being as tight as it is, I have to be more discerning with the number of titles I buy. 70% of the books I purchase are because of the creative teams on the book, so if that changes, I usually give the incoming team somewhere between 3-6 issues (about one story arc). If I'm three issues into the new team's storyline and it's really not clicking with me, I'll drop it there.

Otherwise, by the end of the story arc, I'll think about how intrigued I am with the stories they're trying to tell, how much anticipation I feel about the next issue, and how emotionally invested I am in the characters. If my feelings about it aren't strong enough, I'll usually dump it then. Of course, a lot of it depends on whether the creator is a known entity or not, if it's someone I already like, I'm more willing to give it a go.

As far as what brings me back? If there's an really interesting storyline on the horizon that I read about, a new creator takes over, or the feedback from readers is so good, it warrants another look.

(as a side note, seriously, angry Spider-man fans? I think he gets it. This really isn't the time or place for ridiculous diatribes. And as slow as I was to warm up to BND, the last 2-3 months of issues have been really good! Especially the done in ones/twos.)

Posted by job0476 on 2008-12-17 12:55:54
Good question. Part of my problem is I order three months in advance as I use an online retailer. Over the past few months I've found myself feeling underwhelmed after reading quite a few titles, and finally managed to convince myself it was OK to stop collecting titles I wasn't loving. So when I placed my order this month I cut out about 6 or 7 titles that just weren't doing anything for me anymore, the ones I would consistently put on the bottom of my pile and that would take me several weeks to get around to reading them. Now I'm only ordering the titles that I am genuinely excited to read every month.

As far as specifics, Amazing Spider-Man is one that I recently dropped after realizing I just wasn't enjoying the title. This is not a OMD/BND complaint per se, as I am glad the marriage is over, more or less enjoyed OMD, and was initially very excited at the rotating creative teams. However, I was not thrilled with the first few months, continued buying it due in part to the uniformly outstanding art and in part due to my long standing love for the character, then finally decided to give it up because I just wasn't enjoying it anymore. Of course, the moment I did (didn't order the title for Feb) I read the November issues and absolutely loved what Joe Kelly and Mark Waid did. So I may just get the next couple trades before giving up on the title completely.

Posted by joeshan on 2008-12-17 13:42:08
I only drop titles when I realize that I'm not excited about reading them. That will happen probably after about 2 months with a new title and a few months longer with a title that I've been reading for a while.
What brings me back? Nothing usually. I read plenty and don't miss or look back at titles I've dropped.


Posted by marksmart on 2008-12-17 13:46:09
1 arc
[OK, let's see if this takes, tried several times last night and it just kept going to a blank page....]

I'll usually give a flopping title 1 arc to right itself. If it doesn't get interesting again with the 1st issue of the next arc, that arc stays in the store. This is what I'm currently doing with Thunderbolts, and what I did with Young X-Men (which got better after the 1st arc) and Cable (which didn't).

What will it take to bring me back? Well, let's look at one title that I've quit and come back to later on: Thunderbolts. I dropped it like a rock when it turned into that weird fight club book because it seemed to me like a completely different book hijacking my title - all character and plot development abandoned, no connections, etc. I picked it up again later when it returned under the helm of one of the previous writers, who followed up on the old plot threads with a variation on the old cast that kept things fresh while at the same time being respectful and attentive to the past, continuing ongoing character development, etc.

Now, I'm on the verge of dropping it again because it's doing nearly the exact same thing again: the title is being hijacked by characters who have nothing to do with the title's legacy and taken in a thematic direction that is almost a mockery of the original theme (villains & redemption has become villains and fake redemption - I guess that might be valid for some, but I have less than zero interest in reading about despicable/gritty characters doing gritty things. I'd read a Wildstorm or Image book if I wanted that).

I strongly suspect that come that next issue, I'll be dropping it again, and I'll return someday if enough members of the old cast get back together under another writer that I think gets them, and has them acting in ways that I either agree with or can at least find interesting.

Posted by onefinemess on 2008-12-17 14:08:34
I'm already holding out
Like many others I was a completist that was finally driven to quit Marvel. I collected anything Alpha Flight until Bendis killed them off with such contempt for the characters and the fans. Later, after promising a new "Flight" we were given Omega Flight, a team of mostly Americans including the killer of Alpha Flight. Promoted as an ongoing, it was instead hacked into a mini. Another slap in the face of the fans.
When the Toronto comic convention rolled around we expected some kind of news, instead we were shown an image of Alpha Flight from NA #16 when they were killed and told they were still dead. Marvel decided to spit in the fans' faces this time, I guess to change things up.
For years Marvel writers have done a piss poor job of portraying AF, something I just don't understand. If you want the title to sell, you write the characters to be heroes, and you write them well. Any character can be amazing if you make them out to be just that.
You want the money of fans like me then bring back the ORIGINAL Alpha Flight in their own title, and put a good writer (say Fred Van Lente) on it. Someone who cares about the team and will give them (and the fans) the respect deserved. Follow that up with the proper promotion and maybe involve them as major players in some crossovers.
I know this is a business that you're in, so maybe you guys could listen to your customers for a change and give us the best quality product you can. It only makes sense.

Posted by Legerd on 2008-12-17 15:51:21
I think it depends on how important the character is to you. I was a huge fan of the Wally West Flash during my early '20's but I grew bored with the book, walked away, and never went back for good, although I have checked in from time to time. There was nothing personal there one way or the other.
Spider-man, however is a different story. I've been collecting it for over 20 years and despise where the book has gone since the beginning of the year. Instead of dropping it, I subscribed because I have the entire collection of Amazing and am reluctant to end the collection. However, I believe that when my subscription is done in February so am I. I gave the new status quo over a year, much more than I have given anything else in the past. I've decided that I will keep the collection going, but I will do so by buying the back issues at conventions for a cheeper rate. That way the new direction will not be supported by me what-so-ever, but I will be able to keep my collection going.

I think that in both cases, the thing that would keep me or bring me back would be:
1) superior stories
2) character consistency
3) story progression
This is not to say that the people who have worked on the stories aren't talented, but rather that the stories haven't been fantastic. In Spider-man's case, I would be against bringing back the old status quo for the sake of bringing it back. I don't think that that works - 2 wrongs don't make a right. Rather I would get rid of everyone involved and bring in someone new. If that person had great stories to tell and felt that he could only tell them with the old status quo, fine. If he had a plan to bring it back in a great way, fine. If he felt he could work with the new status quo and still tell awesome stories, that would be fine too. As long as the story moves forward in some sort of meaningful way, that's really all that counts.




Posted by scooter1a on 2008-12-17 15:51:28
ASM581 just did it
I've held on to ASM as an addiction throughout BND. There have been a few ok to good issues but overwhelmingly this is a title that just does not work for me.
Last night I got 581 and read it, interested to see the solution to Harry being back. My thought when I finished was in Brennan's blog he said that they wanted to wait til they got the story fan's deserved. Well if this is what I deserved then Marvel doesn't deserve my money. This morning I rang my LCS and cancelled 20 Marvel titles from my pull list. The only things I am buying from Marvel now are Captain America and Daredevil.

Posted by randin on 2008-12-17 16:19:44
Hold Out
I couldn't say when I stopped buying Marvel books but as I read more interviews by Joey Q and start to see his particular creative vision on most Marvel book, I started to realize that my tastes and his are different were I'm not going to be fulfilled by book made under him. I know that's a broad sweeping generalization to make, and I know there are plenty of editors working at Marvel who put their creative spin on books, but as I've gotten older as a Marvel reader I've started to see how an EIC can really effect the tone of the whole Marvel line. I have nothing against the man, we just seem to differ in our preferences and supposedly you're suppose to vote with your dollar, but that doesn't seem to mean much as people continue to buy stories I personally find boring (WWH, CW, SI, ect). I keep reading how Mr. Q says things like "genies to put back in the bottle" or "Hulk as a barbarian" I find these simple genesis for this major stories help explain why I find them so lacking in the long run.

I do realize that I may be more forgiving of all the various changes at DC because I'm not as emotionally attached to their characters so I don't mind the radical changes over there as I do at Marvel.

But honestly I think at the end of the day art is subjective and I have not been enjoying Marvel comics since Civil War. I don't think I'll come back until there's a big change at Marvel and not just more hype.

Posted by ex_mutants on 2008-12-17 17:17:14
Its an interesting thing deciding what to drop. Sometimes you know that when writer X comes on, that the title is going to suck, so you anticipate dropping the book till writer Y comes on. For me the same cant really be said about the art. Not to say bad art doesnt bother me, but if the story and the writing holds up, then i can usually forgo the art quality to some extent (though i will wish with every panel i look at that it wasnt drawn by artist A). Sometimes the art is so overwhelmingly bad that it drives you to either A. drop the book B. read the book, but feel intense anger and hate the entire time. A lot of the time a team comes on a title and you dont know what you can expect, and you pick it up. Even if its not great i usually give it about 3-6 issues (depending on the length of the arc) before i drop it, unless its really bad. But mostly i feel like a %@#@!& if i drop it after 1. it would be like walking out of a movie after 20 minutes, when i really have no idea where it might be going. Generally speaking if ive decided to drop a title i had at one point greatly enjoyed, ill look through the issues a bit to keep up with what is happening, so that when something changes and i decide to pick it up again ill have an idea of what happened. All it really takes to get back on a book, is really the same as what it takes to buy a new title. Talented people who make good stories, and have a passion, and intelligence in its delivery. is really about as simple as that. (though as with any art, tastes to differ so its hard to know how anyone will really react to it.) a sort of good example of this is moon knight. I got into it because im a really big fan of charlie houstons novels, and i like david finch. i pick it up, i dig it, and all is well. Eventually finch leaves the book, no problem. love the writing, the new artist is pretty solid, though maybe not as good, but no biggie. Then houston is going to leave the book. Mike benson is coming on as writer. Im a fan of Entourage, so i think, hey i know this guy, sounds interesing, im in. I pick up the first issue of bensons moon knight, the writing is good, though not as good IMO, but the problem is really the art. i just dont dig it. not that the art team are not talented guys, but i just cant get into it. But, im in for a few issues. Fast forward to now. Moon Knight came out today. Read it, kinda liked it. writing was solid, but the art, ah the art. slowly over the last few months its been driving me to want to stop buying it. if there isnt a change soon i probably will.

Posted by nikowalter on 2008-12-17 17:22:39
Dropping the book tomorrow.
I held on to ASM for a long time simply because I've read it since I was a kid. I left for the Clone Saga and only returned after word-of-mouth told me the stench left behind had dissipated enough for me to do so. However, I did buy the back issues to say my collection was "complete." I have almost every issue of ASM since the mid-eighties.

OMD/BND pushed me to my limits. I really, really, tried to stick through it, but I'm sorry: Peter Parker does NOT make deals with the devil. I understand characters must change, but OMD went beyond the pale. I waited to see if fan reaction would be enough to rectify the situation, and instead found myself being sneered at by the very people who were asking for my support through hard-earned dollars (in a recession). Wise move...

In short: I took me months to drop ASM, but I'm doing it. I probably would have held out a little longer if it wasn't insinuated that I was a deranged, irrational fool by the editors of said title.

When will I return? When word-of-mouth let's me know it's "okay" to and when I won't be rewarded for buying three issues of month with a smarmy "he's probably in a cult" mentality, as read in Wizard Magazine.

Posted by dtrod on 2008-12-17 17:32:49
It is what it is.
I have collected Spiderman for over 25 years, I stopped after BND. They so completely changed the character I had grown up with, and in such a distasteful way, I won't be back until the real Spiderman and his wife Mj are back.

You can alter a Chevy various ways but still keep it a Chevy..However, don't give me a Yugo and tell me it's a Chevy. Some insults can't be tolerated.

Posted by Ryzorian on 2008-12-17 22:33:28
The one that springs easiest to memory is the Thunderbolts. I too had the problem when it moved to Fight Club. After reading that first issue, I couldn't really see any relationship between this and what I'd read before that I had to give up right then. I realize that this is an intense example and goes to my point. I have a problem when creative teams on team books decide that they can radically change the team at the drop of a hat. I stayed away from T-Bolts for a long time until I picked up the Civil War One shot featuring the recruit of Mac Gargan because I enjoy Yu's artwork. I think picked up an Issue of Ellis' run and found that hard to follow (yeah, you can't really pick up a book mid arc and expect to be really informed). I then re-connected with T-Bolts during the Secret Invasion arc because it was a tie-in which made a bit more sense and allowed me to tie things together.

I think I came back because there was a good positive buzz among lots of readers

Posted by mastulogan12 on 2008-12-17 22:35:49
What will it take for me to drop a book?

If the storyline and / or direction of the book is contrary to the character(s) and their heritage. Recent examples - I dropped New X-Men in the final quarter of Morrison's run and I have dropped Amazing Spider-Man because of OMD and BND. In the first example, I came back when Morrison left (although Austen wasn't any better so I dropped it again and picked it back up with Milligan). However, with the recent example, I have not only dropped Amazing Spider-Man but the disenchantment it left me with has made me drop ALL Marvel titles (except for Amazing Spider-Girl). The majority of the comics I got on a monthly basis were Marvel - probably 80-85% - and I got around 75% of Marvel's monthly output. Why? Because of what Marvel did to Spider-Man with OMD and BND - and the subsequent treatment of fans by Marvel editorial and their creators. This is the depth of my feeling about this. I read through some pretty poor stories in the past but none of them made me drop Marvel as a whole until now.

What will bring me back?

The restoration of the one true Spider-Man and his life. The following would be bonuses:

1. An apology from Mr Quesada for mandating the current direction.
2. An apology from Marvel Editorial and the "Brain Trust" for their treatment of the fans.

Posted by Sentai on 2008-12-18 02:56:13
Honestly
I still haven't read OMD/BND. Right now, I'm tempted to go out and buy all the tpbs and then get a subscription to Amazing Spider-Man. There's just too much push in the opposite direction...

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2008-12-18 06:35:49
Spider-Man and She-Hulk.
As with most things like this that Tom does it has been hijacked by the disappointed and betrayed masses, so I feel compelled to add my tupence for the defence.

I for one love spider-man now. I read it on and off for the last 10 years or so but could rarely get into a story. I read scarlet spider a bit but I couldnt tell you 1 memorable story. Now I pick up every issue and enjoy them almost all of them equally. I love Jackpot and the annual with her in was excellent and I like the fact that there are all new villains and stories while also channeling some of the original spider-man is excellent. Thats right I said the original spider-man. Those of you who say the retcon of the marriage was a betrayal are talking the last 20 years. As i understand it, For the 20 years previous to that he was not married and was the perenial looser made good (in a superheroic sense) that made him such a draw to young men across the world.

Now I admit, i'm not old enough to remember the wedding or the time before that. All I know is that as a guy around the same age bracket as Peter Parker I can identify with him and his problems much better now than ever before. It seems to me that the only people complaining are those whose youth has been betrayed. I feel your pain but in reality you do not own spider-man. You have a hefty stake in him obviously, but he was and should always have been, for people like him. He worked so well at his start because there was a generation of kids who were just like him but they all grew up and I bet there are next none of the original readers in the sixties reading the book now. When Peter got married he grew up like his readers were doing and stayed with that current crop of young men, who have now become older men and have little or no identifying features with the spider-man they originally read. My idea, which will probably be derided by everyone is that those of you who dont like the betrayal should just let it go. Never read the book again. Put it in the mental bracket of lost girlfriends/wives and old friends who betrayed you to; because that what spider-man is. Spider-man will always be 25. Always. You will not. Love him for the way he is meant to be or dont and move on.

All that said there are so many other thing that pissed people off. The editorial staff should really have kept their mouths shut on so many occasions. And the mephisto (not THE DEVIL, whose existence is obviously debatable) thing is hard to swallow I admit. I am still not 100% comfortable with it and I do earnestly believe that has to addresses at some point. Not to dispell one more day but to make sure the good guy doesnt have one over on him from a villain.

Anyway. I have done what I always said I wouldn't, and got involved in a un-winable argument at a very late stage. I suppose I just had my last straw added to my pack.

On the topic actually at hand It tends to take a lot for me to drop a book, par example: She-Hulk. I loved that book, still do love the character, but Peter David ruined it for me. From day 1 I didnt like the art overly much and the story direction got progressively worse to the point now where it is being cancelled. Now obviously I dont know the ins and outs of it but I loved slott's run for it being so totally different to anything else out there. Mallory Book and all the supporting cast were amazing and funny and brilliant in so many ways. I even came to love the art work that I thought was totally off at first. Anyway, enough ranting. My point was that I still buy She-hulk to this day and will until it finished despite PD terrible characterisation. In summary: I love spider-man and she-hulk and tend to keep buying my fav characters in the (in this case vain) hope of getting past the wrong writers and artists to some great story telling of my favourite people. Over and above that I am pretty much like everyone else. I will give a book 3 to 6 months to grab me and after that it is gone.

Sorry for the lengthy message.

Posted by harlequin7 on 2008-12-18 06:51:52
How long ...
These days they get one issue to recover. Otherwise, they get dropped from my pull list. If a creative team I really like takes over the book, I'll give it another try. It's been surprising to me how little I've missed Spiderman or Fantastic Four since I dropped them.

For Spiderman to get back on my list it would have to drop down to twice a month. Fantastic Four might get back on once Millar is off the book.

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-12-18 13:09:39
losing touch
My situation has been similar to your own, Tom, except with adult circumstances. Through college my funds were split almost evenly between rent, booze and comics (don't worry, i've always read sober). A few years removed, wife and baby come along and the money isn't there for following the entire MU along with all my other interests. My pull lists dwindled and dwindled finally to the point that now I only keep up with comics via the Internet (which has led me to your blog, so thats nice).
But for me, what I've kept up with and what I haven't has really boiled down to a love affair. If a character has really found their way into my blood, then I'm keeping up with them and buying their books no matter what. I've slapped loose change together to still try and pick up Amazing Spider-Man during my hiatus (thrice monthly makes for a lot of couch-diving on my part, thanks).

I can't say that any creative team announcements would bring me back to a book, except maybe for some childhood nostalgia items like Bagley back on "regular MU" Spider-Man. I have people I enjoy and follow

But most of the time, it takes an "event" for me to want to check back in on a character, like checking in on an old friend when you hear their parent died or some other tragedy occurred. I don't like to admit being gullible to marketing and commercial hype, but when it comes to Comics, I don't mind.



Posted by captainwinkie on 2008-12-18 21:31:32
Mostly, it's the writers
Mighty Avengers is a prime example. I'm reading it because I like Bendis and I also like that Ares and the Sentry are/were on the team. Well, it's looking like Bendis is bringing Ares with him to Dark Avengers and while I like Dan Slott, he seems to want to do a more "Avengery" book. I was never a big Avenger fan pre-Bendis, so I'll give Slott a couple of issues. If they don't grab me, I'll drop it.

As far as coming back? I don't have any real character loyalty (aside from the 90s Midnight Sons books and the cosmic side of the MU), so it really all depends on the writer and what they say they are doing with the character. Example, I dropped Captain America vol 4 shortly after Rieber left and it took Brubaker coming in to make me pick it up again.

It's odd. Now that I really think about it. I've rarely "came back" to books. I either drop them due to lack of interest or they are canceled.

Posted by jaredgood1 on 2008-12-19 02:22:16
about two issues
So I really like waid ringo's F4 and i gave JMS 2 issues and dropped it. New avengers i gave it the first arc didn't like sentry much dropped during the middle of collective. I came back post Civil war because of the new line up.
jms spidey i stayed for 2 arcs after i stopped loving it. BND is when I and all my friends came back to it. I read all this griping about the stories but i much prefer this spidey to everything in the last decade.

i dropped x-men after morrison, came back for messiah complex. dropped it again after two issues.

dropped 100 bullets after the 6th tpb. I dropped runaways after the 2nd whedon issue. Might come back after i hear about the next tpb. I dropped Hulk after bruce jones came back due to planet hulk buzz dropped after wwh due to jeph loeb. will come back if PAK writes it again. Gave ultiamtes 3 2 issues then dropped it. So 2 issues when i start not feeling someting and then i drop. or i'll finish out a story arc. New buzz characer revamp, or big status shake up such as death of Cap or BND gets me back.

Posted by jsoweidy on 2008-12-19 23:40:18
Tom, you must be a glutton for punishment
...to put such a query forward, knowing that the thread will be mostly BND bashing! Personally I like BND and ASM today feels like proper Spidey in a way the series hasn't for years. All the people banging on about the marriage need to get over it. Seriously. All the whinging wont reverse anything. OMD was a horrible story, no question about it. But it was ultimately a means to an end.

As for dropping titles, once I drop them they tend to stay dropped; mostly it's a question of creative team for me; I always buy ASM but was never as strict with PP:SSM or Sensational. I recently dropped Punisher after Garth Ennis left, and don't see myself going back.

Posted by Moorish on 2008-12-21 08:00:00
It really depends on so many factors, for me, and I can't say I've got a hard and fast rule. I've tried to get better about dropping titles that I'm not enjoying with the economy as it is, but I still fight completist tendencies.

In that regard, I'm buying New Warriors v.4 to a bitter end, if only because I own every issue of the title ever published. But if it hadn't been called New Warriors, I'd probably have dropped it ages ago. No logic to it, but I can't help myself.

For another example: Thunderbolts. One issue of FightBolts was enough for me to drop the title. Every thing about the change jarred and I had no interest in reading that status quo. It was effectively a brand new book.

As soon as we got the real TBolts back (in the TBolts/Avengers mini), I was back on board. I was very cautious about the change in status quo when Ellis came on board -- since I think he tends to be condescending when writing super heroes and I wasn't interested in that -- but ended up mostly enjoying his run.

But now that the status quo is changing again, I'm not even planning to give it an issue. I enjoyed Diggle's first two issues about the TBolts, but I have no interest in the characters he's planning on writing. Based on the publicity, it's different enough that I'm basically considering it a new title and I'm not at all invested in it. To get me to come back? It would probably require a return to some form of the original characters/mission.

For other titles I've dropped and come back to, basically they have to spark my interest and/or return to the previous status quo. I'm hesitantly looking forward to the Avengers now that Marvel's decided to publish them again (though I don't know if even Slott can repair the massive damage done over the last five years). The X-Men took the first movie to get me interested again and the books were interesting enough to sustain the look I took.



Posted by motteditor on 2008-12-22 17:31:57
If Marvel is bound and determined to stand by the Brand New Day retcon, the only way to make it palatable is by retconning One More Day. Even those who like BND hate OMD, and many of those who hate BND hate it solely because of OMD. OMD is an albatross around Marvel's neck, and you must remove it. Deliberately ignoring the problem will not fix it.

Fans of the character are right to be angry. Spider-Man was faced with a problem. Not even an outlandish, super-heroish problem, but one that almost everyone must face at some point, the impending death of a loved one. Most of us succeed in facing this inevitable tragedy with a level of dignity, or at least we try. Spider-Man's solution was to surrender his wife to a monster. Why should any of your readers forgive him for this?

You must actively address the problem. If you want to avoid re-opening this wound in the pages of the main title (which has, understandably, gone to great lengths to distance itself from this story), you can do it in a stand-alone one shot. But you must provide some explanation of how and why something so thematically unacceptable can appear to have happened. Peter and MJ were being mind controlled. It wasn't really Mephisto. Maybe it was... Immortus, using a mind control device, and then he changed history with a time machine. Whatever. Go ahead and make up as cockamamie a comic book explanation as you like. The important thing is that the character's integrity be restored. The scene where he deliberately sells his marriage to a demon has to un-happen.

If you do that, it will bring some of your readers back. Maybe even me.

Also, Spider-Man's creative staff must stop actively mocking the book's critics. The staff has not succeeded in making its critics look absurd, but has only made itself appear arrogant, and driven away the very audience it hopes to entice back. The critics have perfectly legitimate complaints, and that is common knowledge.

None of what I have said will really justify the retcon. A poorly explained, far-reaching retcon is almost the textbook definition of bad writing in serial fiction. But providing a better explanation for the retcon will make the retcon more forgivable.

Again, that explanation must address the events of OMD. Simply providing a new explanation for the BND retcon, and pretending that OMD was never published, will be inadequate, because readers will conclude that the "new" explanation is, itself, a creation of Mephisto's. You've got to find some way to actively assert that Spider-Man and Mary Jane did NOT knowingly and willingly sell their integrity and their love to an agent of absolute evil because they were not strong enough to face a basic fact of life that most of your book's readers have faced successfully.

I would, of course, be most pleased if the BND retcon itself were undone, but that has been said many times by many critics and ignored. Here, I am just trying to provide a compromise that may be more agreeable to you.

Posted by bobadventures on 2008-12-23 04:21:08
I try to give a book at least a few issues before I drop it. Sometimes more if I really want to like it. Hulk is a good example. I'm giving this book a year to get someplace, and if it doesn't, I'm dropping it. Fantastic Four has always been on again off again. Miller got me to come back. I'm willing to give new directions more of a chance when there's logical story progression. When a writer sets it up, pulls the trigger, and deals with the aftermath. Captain Amercia is the perfect example of this. I HATED it when Steve got killed, but hung in there, because Bru was still on the book, and I'm loving it more than ever. Something like Spidey is the exact opposite. It's editorily driven. There was zero set up, the writers that pulled the trigger left, and there's like 4 or 5 writers trying to put out one book three times a month. The only book I've collected religously since I was 8 (now 30) is Amazing Spider-man. I kept up through the Clone Saga. I suffered through Brynes issues. I probably enjoyed JMS's run more than any run I'd read up to that point. I waited to get the explaination of Harry's return, and was disapointed. I'll hang in to read character assisination, but after that I may drop the book. The only thing that would make me keep it at this point would be ONE writer, and ONE artist with a solid voice for the character and an interesting direction for him to take.

Posted by vijinand on 2008-12-24 10:51:07
Hate BND
I had a pretty good collection of ASM, from issue 130 forward and complete series of the other main Spidey Titles. BND killed it for me. I stopped right there. A few months later I was at a convention and all the ASM books were on sale so I bought all the ones I had missed, just to keep my collection unbroken. What a waste of money! I read the first 12 issues of BND and the stories just stank! I dropped the series again and won't buy another issue until they bring back the old continuity.

Posted by moff65 on 2008-12-29 14:27:36
...It Depends.
It's situational for me:

Examples:
i was absofreakingloving Iron Fist under Bru/Fraction/Aja and was CRUSHED when they announced they were leaving, but i gave the new team 2 issues to impress me (i was worried because i'd read poor reviews of Duane S.s Cable, but i dig Travel Foreman), and they did! So i keep getting it.

I've been following Avengers the Initiative from the get-go. loved the Slott/Gage dynamic. But i'd rather be stabbed in the eyes with hot sharp pokers then look a Ramos' art, so i'm not even giving it a chance, it's dropped like a hot rock after #20 (and i'm really sad about it.)

Likewise, i love the Ultimate U and David Finch, but after Wolverine: Evolution and reviews of Ultimates III and Onslaught The Return or whatever it was called and the R(idculous)ed Hulk i wouldn't touch another Loeb product with a ten foot longbox.

so, i guess if it's a creator i don;t care for or trust, it's instant, not giving them a chance. If it's a change i'm unsure of/unfamiliar with, i'll give it 2-3 issues. (ala Diggle on Thunderbolts)

Posted by artiepants on 2008-12-29 17:36:57
It's easy to avoid driving off fans
1. Mocking the customers is considered a good thing to avoid. I can't remember ever reading in sales training material, "Ridicule your customers and dare them to go away" as a sales strategy. You guys succeeded in changing your customers' from hating a storyline to hating you. Crafting and publicizing a string of retro-fitted justifications for it is also very annoying.

2. When your flagship product is a fictional heroic character who's motto is "responsibility" and whose appeal is that he never makes the ends justify the means, having him shake hands with a fiendish demon in exchange for abandoning his marital vows is an amazingly bad idea. It defiles the brand.

3. When roughly-consistent storyline continuity is one of the company's classic selling points, abandoning that unique selling point is not a good idea.

Peter and MJ both need their characters cleaned off of the dirt in which you immersed them, Mephisto needs to have his face rubbed in it at Peter's hands, somehow, and somebody in authority somewhere should apologize for acting like junior highers and ridiculing the customers. Even if Peter and MJ come back out of that rectification process married, or separated (sinced they both voluntarily abandoned their vows to each other), doing these other things would go a long way.

Posted by revjab on 2009-01-06 10:45:40
I'm already won back with ASM.

I could'nt care less if OMD or the 90's "continuity" was mentioned or not in the near or distant future. I actually liked OMD as a Faustian story. Spider-man isnt a infallible icon like DC heroes. Plus a villain has to win some times, heroes cant perpetually win all the time.

Keep it up Marvel!

Posted by BlackToe on 2009-01-07 06:19:10
How do you get a customer back???
1. Listen to what they want.
2. Give them what they want.
3. Don't ever insult or make fun of them due to your mistakes.

Posted by Big Thunder on 2009-01-13 11:41:25