What about
Mindmeld?

Posted by Brotherman on 2006-09-21 21:25:38
I don't know. I agree with the serious lack of really memorable villains , but as a long-time Marvel fan , I think there's alot of potential using obscure characters. Alot of fans would love to see retro characters being used in single-story comics. Imagine Big Wheel or Rocket Racer making a run at Spidey for example.

Sure , Pete's sure to hand their backsides to them as easily as he did back in the day , but wouldn't it be fun to see again after all these years? Besides , maybe writers could play off those old baddies and update their personalities a bit. Imagine how long some of those guys got to sit and rot in prison. Wouldn't they harbor a veritable ton of hatred for Spidey?

Odds are those old characters would be plotting on Spidey for ages and watch him in action on news reports over the years. Studying him and his techniques. Now with Peter being unmasked , sure might be alot easier for them to get paroled and have another go at him.

Posted by FelixTheCatt on 2006-09-21 22:32:40
Couldn't agree more
I absolutely couldn't agree more. I think one of the things DC's done well with of late is rejuvenating their villain corps. I'd love to see Marvel do the same.

I know Tom's talking more about the second tier of villains here, but I'd especially love to see more guys who could become top tier: Maybe not Magneto/Dr. Doom/Doc Ock, but something along the lines of Gravitron or Apocalypse/Mr. Sinister.

I think too often Marvel's new villains come across as the most powerful character around, but then they disappear as soon as they're beaten. There's no character, just a set of powers. The MU need more new bad guys with real motivations; not evil for evil's sake, but motivated by a specific purpose. And then there needs to be a concerted effort to make them good villains (without overexposing them, of course).

And while I'm a big fan of TBolts and what Nicieza's doing there, it's taking away a lot of excellent villains: Zemo, Dr. Chen Lu, Beetle... I don't want to complain, as I really enjoy what's being done with them, but they need to be replaced.

Oh, and you can always bring back the Elements of Evil. They're great.

Posted by motteditor on 2006-09-21 22:48:45
Obscure Villains
Always been partial to the Spot myself... Looks like it's time to crack open the Marvel Encyclopedias and Handbooks again...

Posted by astrosapien on 2006-09-21 22:59:30
How about the old Sleepwalker villian Bookworm (i think that's his name)? Could work as a Mysterio-type villain.

Or Mayhem, from Cloak and Dagger. Former cop, too.

Posted by ButchMapa on 2006-09-21 23:39:44
Perhaps you can confirm or deny my suspicions
I've long wondered what happened to all the good villains in the Marvel Universe. My current Civil War theory is that Iron Man is being set up to be the next big villain in the Marvel Universe. He'd be perfect - intelligent, wealthy beyond all belief, ambitious perhaps to a fault, vain, egotistical, a little twisted in his priorities. Based on how he's behaved lately, I don't see how there can be any going back for Tony Stark, at least for a while.

Maybe it's not as simple as heroes and villains, you might say, because any change in hero/villain status is likely temporary for one of the original Avengers. More villains need to be created, just as we always need to focus oncreating new characters and breathing new lifeblood and old stories. I think Tony Stark would make a fantastic villain, and just nod your head if you think I'm right.

Posted by ignatiusmonkey on 2006-09-22 00:10:40
Heroes and Villians
Well sometimes there are howls form the fan community. When Morlun was introduced in Spidey he seemed to geta negativ reaction. I though he was pretty cool and while I could've lived without the eye gouging scene he was a great chracter. Though limited in some way. he was basically just a vampire (ish) terminator.
I like what Bendis is soing in Avengers (sorry Mott) With Hydra and SHIELD etc... it's graet to see acomic dig a bit deeper into that underbelly rather than scratch the surface -- which is what most action comics do and the older Avengers comics did.
With heroes such as Cage, Spider-Woman, Iron Fist all being rejuvenated let's see some villains.
I think a lot of Spidey's mob could be retooled to mae them more dangerous.

Posted by eamonmcgrane on 2006-09-22 05:31:17
I always got annoyed when Scourge just killed off a bunch of baddies.

We need a Turner D. Century legacy villain (or even better, a Turner. D. Century legacy villainess).


Posted by MattDiCarlo on 2006-09-22 09:08:36
Bring on the Baddies!
I don't know if it's so much a need for more stock villains, as there are for more incredible, truly dangerous villains. Baddies, nowadays, seem to fall off the map once the initial threat they've posed has been extinguished (anyone remember Exodus?). If you create baddies that are so big they need their own event to be beaten (like Onslaught), then using them over and over again requires an adequately big event...unless they're Doomsday and go from "The guy who killed Superman" to "That rocky cat who pops up every once in a while."
No, you need more incredible villains like Magneto or Dr. Doom who can be a threat to the world...but really serve the purpose of being a threat to a specific hero and (more importantly) provide a personal conflict to make the story work.

Posted by clirving on 2006-09-22 14:00:52
I've got it.

Tom, if you really want to rehabilitate your villains, what you need is a close-knit crossover written by a bestseller writer that turns all of your biggest joke villains into rapists. I mean, come on - NOTHING would make me take the Gladiator or the Jester more seriously than a brutal rape.

Posted by uzumerid on 2006-09-22 14:48:13
For me, heroes are defined by their villains, and it gets pretty dangerous when the villains are declawed.

I'm still hoping to see a hero flat out go bad. No possession, brainwashing, or dopplegangers. Simply a "being a do-gooder is for suckers, and I'm tired of it."


Posted by Josh_F on 2006-09-22 14:54:07
Rehabilitating Villains
I think the biggest problem with villains these days is that too many readers (and it seems writers) sort of separate villains into two categories: pathetic joke and completely debased psychopath. So in so many cases (particularly with the DC villain revamping people have mentioned), the revamp basically consists of taking a character who was previously "not taken seriously" and then having them just kill a lot of people for no reason to show that they're a "force to be reckoened with!" This gets really boring quickly, to the point that there isn't really much to differentiate a story featuring a given villain beyond the costume and possible power set. It's pre-ordained how the villain character will behave; in the most evil and murderous way possible.

A title like Thunderbolts does a good job of fleshing out and "rehabilitating" villains (though not neccesarily rehabilitating them away from villany) because it actually gives them some sort of inner-life, and personality traits besides cackling, utterly amoral eeeeeeeevilness.

Posted by quimper on 2006-09-22 15:15:17
NEW VILLAIN IDEA
BRUTE BEAST
Basically, John Grizzly is an adaptoid creature, and can adapt to any situation on the fly. This allows his body to bulk up after a few hours at the gym into a size that lest him carry almost any humanly known weight in the world (car, bus, small house). This also allows his body to repair itself to human specifications very fast. It also lets his brain adapt to any situation, be it a math problem or tactical problem, but the difficulty of the problem varies the time it takes to adapt and solve it. If his brain is destroyed he will revert to his adaptoid from of a gooey hard-like cocoon until he is shown something else to revert to. Or since a human form is already in his memory, if he is not told a new form to revert to in a certain amount of time, he will revert back to his first form (human).



Posted by thejew011 on 2006-09-22 18:31:59
Big Wheel and such
Big Wheel appeared in SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED a while back, where he reformed and is currently the star attraction at Monster Truck events.

I'm not sure which level of villain Tom was referring to, though. I think there should be a level of silly villains, so in that respect I don't have a problem with their being some villains who are retained for comic relief (the Space Turnip, anyone?). But what's also missing are the Doc Ock, Magneto, Green Goblin types. They've been squeezed out between the grittification of the street level stories on the one hand and the threat inflation of the costumed level on the other.

Posted by Ovid on 2006-09-22 18:45:07
Systems over villains
I agree with you that good lasting villains seem to be a bit short on the ground and while you have the classics such as Doom, Venom, Sinister and Magneto (if he is not on the fence or being good, which I do enjoy). But it appears to me that you need to establish a better system to churn out the knuckle padding goons that end up on the ends of Daredevil and X-Men fists. At Marvel you have a great ocean of grey underworld reality that is not really used. In Amazing Fantasy-Vegas, X-23, Runaways and the Knights you have a world full (though smaller now) of mutants, powered up nobodies, disenfrachised wannabes and henchmen leftovers trying to sought out a living in a morally vague world. Take a page from life and the newspapers it is not the large sociopath in spandex causing carnage its a criminal underworld full of middle men wanting power fast looking to replace the guy in front of him.

I believe if you experiment with the world of powered individuals that fall through the gaps in society you should find the canon fodder and stories that round your work between world shaping events in tights.
Finally, please expand the view of the world at present and look at the marvel unvierse outside New York. I would love to see Australia (being an Aussie) coping with Mutants, House of M fallout, Registration and its mutant society. What about Canada are they rebuilding a super team to cope with caped refugees. I would love to see such stories in Amazing Fantasy or other works.

Posted by nix09 on 2006-09-23 03:56:10
Back in the 70s and 80s, it seemed that every book had its little pool of bad guys which the writer could use, with new members joining all the time. As mentioned by eamonmcgrane above, with a lot of "Bronze Age" characters like Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and Spiderwoman making comebacks, I think it would be fruitful to look through their old rogues and see who can updated. The Heroes for Hire (both on their own and together) had a very colorful and diverse cast of baddies they beat up on, and since a lot of them were involved with so-called "street level" crime, they could be easily taken as a low-level threat to most MU superheroes.

I mean, over in "Heroes for Hire" we just had Goldbug, Shockwave, Equinox, Bloodshed, Kogar, Shadow-Slasher, and Ghost Maker. And they put up a pretty good fight too!

Posted by ljacone on 2006-09-26 08:19:21
Marvel Nemesis
I know this may sound silly, but if you were really hurting for villains, I don't think using characters like Wink, Hazmat, or Paragon from Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects. Granted, a little bit of retconning or history tweaking might be necessary, but I don't think it would be all bad. At best they'd make minor villains (but that's what you're looking for, right?), except for Paragon, who is some kind of hardass in MN. I don't know, maybe this is just the gamer in me talking.

Posted by superkrautdog on 2006-09-27 17:01:10
...very minor edit.
"I don't think using characters like Wink, Hazmat, or Paragon from Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects WOULD BE A BAD THING*."

Posted by superkrautdog on 2006-09-27 17:02:31
That is one thing Taskmaster is always good for... new villains. Blood Spider, Death-shield, Jagged Bow, T-Ray (originally intended to be trained by Taskmaster), Jolt (Kyi), the second Spymaster, Eclecta, Malovick, and Pyron.

Posted by DragynWulf on 2006-09-28 16:32:01
Josh_F is completely right
I 100% agree we need some hero from the MU to turn totally opposite just go bad becasue he feels like it. honestly how many times have you wondered what if he was evil, it would make everything interesting imagine after a hero sends all the bad guys to jail and helps his superhero allies and then swithces how will the other baddies react how will his former hero allies react just imagine the possibilities. personally i always thought what would it be if deadpool truly was EVIL not just in it for himself but jut hated being a goodguy even if it was for only a bit, HEck even take SPidey and turn him bad even if its just for a bit i mean hes been a goodguy for such a long time wouldnt he get a little curious just how much he could get away with if he was a goon

Posted by SPIDAFREAK on 2006-11-09 16:11:44
Just a suggestion
Dont get me wrong super heroes are great but I have ALWAYS liked the villains I mean they are the ones with the real stories they are the ones who kno what the bad side of life is they try so hard, they try and work harder a heck of a lot more than the hero, so i say enough with the heroes why cant we have a comic book based on a villain Im not talkin anti hero or punisher. I mean a guy who does bad things and he knows he does bad things, robs a bank for his benefit kills a guy because he likes it when blood leaks all over the floor. A BADASS VILLAIN comic book then you wont worry about running out of villains for this guy because he is one and then you only have to think of the heroes this guy can beat the crap out of..

Posted by SPIDAFREAK on 2006-11-22 19:28:16
There's always the Serpent Society. :)

Posted by nyssane on 2006-11-23 15:39:09
Villains
They do need more villains, but personaly, I dont think we see enough of Mephisto and Blackheart! Their both strong, and their could be a good storyline in say, the new Ghost Rider comic with the three of them all-together!!!

Posted by HulkKieran on 2006-12-09 02:59:03
When Good Guys Go Bad
I agree that a story line of a hero going bad would be interesting. I also very much agree that Tony Stark is going a bit over the line from hero to villian. So what would the story be like? Old hero friends but heads....oh yea, we kinda have that already with Civil War. Hmm, hero kills people....nope Frank Castle took the gold on that one. So a new idea for a hero going bad....I dont know....any ideas?

Posted by Tragik on 2007-01-04 10:02:03
I don't like villans

Posted by bunkerboy on 2007-01-14 13:07:34
Villians
There are plenty of villians. Thats not the problem though. There needs to be cooler villians. Who wants to hear about stupid people like mysterio on spider-man. I mean come on! We need a villian that is actually a challenge.

Posted by Zacharyratliff on 2007-05-31 14:27:12
Heroes are hot and villians not?
heroes are great to read aboutin any comic book when they save the day or even saved a life, but who are the people that help them with their stardom anyway?The Villians! Sometimes its the villians that make the heroes like Spider-man or even Wolverine. Now may be younger than all of the marvel lovers, but I know that villians are just as great as heroes. Think of Green Goblin or even Dr. Doom, two great villians and your saying you can make anymore! You have to make more for all the other 10 year olds like me to still believe in villians are somewhat cool. What I'm trying to say is Marvel Universe if don't want to lose your young fans use your imagination and let it go wild so we have a future.

Posted by waveman10 on 2007-08-14 11:28:39