THANK YOU!
One of the things that made it hard to get back in to comics after an 18 year hiatus was all these dense continuities that were everywhere. I used to be an X-men fan (almost exclusively) and now, Astonishing is really the only book I can read because it seems that the other X-books are loaded with people and scenarios I can't get through.

BSG is a great example of how it should be done. Every episode, they give you exactly what you need to know for that story in a quick series of vignettes. Any creator that tells you that it can't fit in is very self-absorbed.

I think Pak has done a great job of constantly communicating the plot points of Planet Hulk and getting everyone up to speed. WWH prologue and WWH 1 had great examples of how to do this. I am a big fan of the "scroll page" at the beginning of each marvel comic and I think it is really a beneficial thing to the readers, old and new.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2007-06-20 14:13:15
Said it before
But I think that it's easier than ever to catch up with a bit of internet research and the people who are actually going to be in a place to buy a comic are ones that will likely either care enough to take 5 minutes and look at a wiki page or that wouldn't buy the comic anyway.

And whenever the fiancee puts on an episode of Law and Order, I don't have the first clue who any of the characters are, so there you go. There's one.

Posted by MattDiCarlo on 2007-06-20 16:41:53
Agreed, On All Points
I think it's very important to keep people up to date in each issue. And it is good when the writers slip it in before you notice in the dialogue. Though I admit I don't really read those update pages unless I'm TOTALLY confused about the series, and know nothing about what's going on.

However, I really like that World War Hulk example. It may sound simple, but if every recap page could contain pictures and simple text, I might be tempted to pay some attention to it. Frankly, the giant block of text in most makes my eyes glaze over and makes me want to get on to the action/pretty pictures.

I read books for giant chunks of text. So, seriously, urge people to follow that example! The downside being that not every comic can be summed up so easily in such a linear fashion, especially the X-Men!

Oh, and I also never have a clue what's with those Law & Order people. I'm always confused whenever I see it. Then again, it really doesn't matter; it's just Cop A, Cop B, Lawyer C, Lawyer D, Judge E.

Posted by PseudoSherlock on 2007-06-20 21:24:42
That World War Hulk example should be the new standard for Marvel. 1 page. 4-10 pictures, brief captions. I just got excited looking at that page.

Posted by stuckinazkaban on 2007-06-20 22:54:13
New X-Men's 'Quest For Magick' has been an example of this done badly in my view. I'm not a New X-Men reader generally (althought I'm catching up on the trades), but wanted to read about Illyana. But it's damn hard to follow. So many characters with little explanation of them or their powers. Even the recap page was a bit useless. I doubt I'll continue reading it...

Posted by NewChad on 2007-06-21 05:36:17
I agree with Matt Di Carlo. A lot of tv shows don't fill you in unless they have a 'Previously on...'segment at the start. I suppose they are similar to Marvel's recap pages.
And as a young reader I LOVED not knowing who and what everything was. Any new characters were simply referenced with things like *see the latest issue of FF for details - it worked for me and I still the assertion that they don't work in the trade format days.
PS. My first exposure to The Thing (now my favourite character) was in the Jim Starlin - pencilled Marvel Feature story, the title of which led me to think for many moons that this great new character I'd discovered was called Cry Monster. :)

Posted by bomaya on 2007-06-21 10:33:14
the meanwhile effect
in old times, there was a back-cover chronicle who explained what was happening into the others titles, bringing a unique sensation of synchronicity, so I think that a short explanation about the last episodes in the before the story is a nice attention ;as for characterization, I remember Chris Claremont telling to each new episode that Colossus was from Russia, Logan was amnesiac, maybe you could use more flash-backs into a plot, make the character himself think often where he comes from...

Posted by notapotatoe on 2007-06-21 10:52:12
yeah but
Okay, lets talk about Law and Order. Law and Order is a show that is designed specifically to downplay characterization and focus only on single episodes. There is very very little in the way of plot points carried forward from one show to the next. The result? Extremely accessible viewing making it one of the most successful shows ever. Most Marvel comics no longer fall into that category.
If you are wanting a more apples to apples approach to compare serialized fiction, talk about Lost or Days of our Lives and the Avengers. They have more in common in that each event builds on the past events.
And there in lies the rub. The shows with episodic, plot-focused content is great for the greater number of viewers, but the serialized shows have a smaller, but more dedicated fanbase. How do you bridge that gap?

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2007-06-21 11:24:31
so this is dyptichs or tryptichs versus saga...?
hope you will want to read more...(it works anyway, I mean,it worked for me )

Posted by notapotatoe on 2007-06-21 13:26:45
Hey Tom, is there an official place for giving comments to Marvel? I imagine there is so I would love to know what it is, so I could direct this to the appropriate place. As it is I know you're the editor of Iron Man and I wanted to say that issue 19 was absolutely fantastic, love the new writer and the new artist. Great dialogue and awesome artwork, overall I'm really liking where Iron Man is going these days, much better than the direction he was headed in at the end of the third volume. Thanks for working so hard for Marvel's fans.

Posted by CypherHalo on 2007-06-21 14:45:17
And if you lacking a recap...
...pick up the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe to get you up to speed! Didn't get the Handbook with your character of interest, and your shop is out of reprints? Support an online comic shop - or go to www.marvel.com/universe, already loaded with character summaries and growing ever day. Couldn't resist the shameless plug!

Posted by MikeFichera on 2007-06-21 17:32:12
hmm
WWH feels too simple and childish compared to the ideas of Civil War. WWH is like a downgrade in marvel events. In story and ART! McNiven is just amazing and then all of a sudden the next event looks to be drawn by a 10 year old that snuck in the business.

Too bad.

Posted by Bearpod91 on 2007-06-21 18:04:42
good,
you're all good elements

Posted by notapotatoe on 2007-06-22 00:51:16
Providing Plot Information
One of the worst offenders, in terms of failing to provide plot information within the story, is Brian Michael Bendis. Two instances from MIGHTY AVENGERS #3:

Several fans noted, as did I, that the Sentry seemed to be inexplicably weak in battling a transformed Iron Man and halting the plunge of the Helicarrier. A Sentry fan informed us that the hero’s strength varied with his state of mind. If he was nervous or anxious, he was weaker than he would otherwise be. There was no way to know that from information in the story/

A panel showed a S.H.I.E.L.D. scientist telling the Mighty Avengers that Ms. Marvel had absorbed energy emissions from the transformed Iron Man and that those emissions were now being analyzed. Fine, except that Ms. Marvel hadn’t done that in MA #3 or the preceding issues. A scene or sequence was missing.

In NEW AVENGERS #27-#31, the NA battle the Hand’s ninjas and Elektra. Just why Elektra took over the Hand, what her goals are, etc., are unknown--the Silver Samurai talks vaguely about her and the Hand in NA #28--but perhaps none of that is supposed to matter, because in NA #31, Elektra is revealed to be a Skrull.

Actually, the missing plot information *does* matter, because the earlier depiction as Elektra conflicts with the “Skrull” revelation, because there’s no sense of drama when the stakes in a conflict are unknown, and because, in “Avengers Disassembled,” readers were expected to believe that Wanda had been insane for years, had forgotten her children, etc., when no story line since Byrne’s AWC run had shown her being insane, and she had never been shown forgetting about the children.

Bendis is much too fond of concealing plot information, providing vague hints, through dialogue, and then doing big “reveal” issues with chunks of exposition. That style failed disastrously in “Avengers Disassembled,” and might fail as badly here. Delivering plot information to the reader requires using narration, like it or not.

SRS




Posted by Steven R. Stahl on 2007-06-22 09:42:20
no problem with the first-data-pages
i love those first pages , keep em coming!!

Posted by Los Shapis on 2007-06-23 20:25:52
Law & Order Response
Just to respond to the guy who says he turns on Law & Order and has no idea who the characters are... well, frankly, I'm gonna call you a liar. L&O has the easiest transitions to follow because they always announce what's going to happen. "Hey, let's all talk to the DA" black out "Why hello there, I'm the DA". They give you every piece of info you need at the beginning and end of each scene. Within the first five minutes you know the names of the detectives because one of them almost always says "I'm detective Brisco, this is detective Greene, what the heck happened here?" as their first line.

So, yeah... You're wrong.

Posted by GnKoichi on 2007-06-24 19:00:36
this
keep it out

Posted by sniper132 on 2007-06-25 19:39:52
I really like the recaps
That WWH recap page is brilliant. That should be the new standard: quick and dirty and then to the action.

The recap page was a great idea that I wish DC would pick up. I'm a long time comic fan who has just made the venture into the DC Universe, and though I know a lot I still get lost sometimes reading JL, or 52/Countdown or whatever, because there are so many second tier back characters I've never heard of. A quick pic with a name/summary of who they are at the start of the page would be hot.

Posted by Akelexre on 2007-06-27 10:32:13