I just reread the Nicieza Hawkeye series recently and I totally forgot about this but it looks to me like Clint killed Foxfire in the final issue (#8 ) aptly titled "A Little Murder". I would say that this was bad writing on the part of Fabian but it does actually set a precedent that Clint is capable of killing. In the issue, Clint didn't even bat an eye-lash when he fired a sharp-tipped arrow with explosisives mounted to the side straight into Fox-Fire's face.
I think that this is more indicative of the laissez-faire writing that always seems to be associated with Hawkeye, than an indictment of Clint's character but a precedent is a precedent. (I also pointed out that Hawkeye likely killed the Silencer back in the second issue of the first Hawkeye series. Has anyone noticed how silent this character has been ever since that series?)
Its amazing that the fans still love this Clint Barton character so much after all the bungling and mischaracterizations that the writers have perpetrated, but the essence of the wise-cracking Hawkeye is truly priceless. Go Hawkeye Go!
I do remember both those occasions. The bit about Silencer is up for debate by many. He definitely fell, possibly to his death... but I assume the reason why he hasn't been used since then was because he really was created to be this expendable goon.
Besides, Clint throwing defending himself and throwing a guy down a 200 ft drop is different than going out looking to kill Osborne in cold blood and shooting people in the face, and throwing them from 60 stories on his way up. I agree about Nicieza's finale, and always wondered what was the outcome of that. But it's still not as bad as what Bendis is having Clint do on a regular basis, nowadays
What_the acolyte Joined: 01.01.1970 Posts: 78
Re: Clint the Killer?
Posted: 11.06.2009 9:04pm
."
I have to agree with you on your points. This all has to do with bad writing and ignorance of an established character by Bendis and apparently Nicieza too.
I am also now reading the original Avengers series as I have bought the series on disc (highly, highly recommended). If you look at issues 37 and 38 of the original Avengers, you will see that Clint is established as someone who does not kill, and by extension, the Avengers are a team that does not kill. This was what lead to the Avengers near-defeat in this issue and the day was saved by none other than the Black Widow who threatened to kill the enemy. Clint realized that this was wrong and it caused him problems when he was trying to bring her on-board onto the team. It is an interesting twist that Mockingbird would run into a similar situation. I am only now appreciating just how cleverly the whole Mockingbird story was written to echo Clint's problems with Natasha Romanova from 2 decades earlier. It is really unfortunate how this great duo (Hawk and Mock) has been bungled ever since.
We rest our hopes with McCann. Save the Hawk and the Mock oh great one!
BartonIsHawkeye88 wrote:
What_the wrote:
I just reread the Nicieza Hawkeye series recently and I totally forgot about this but it looks to me like Clint killed Foxfire in the final issue (#8 ) aptly titled "A Little Murder". I would say that this was bad writing on the part of Fabian but it does actually set a precedent that Clint is capable of killing. In the issue, Clint didn't even bat an eye-lash when he fired a sharp-tipped arrow with explosisives mounted to the side straight into Fox-Fire's face.
I think that this is more indicative of the laissez-faire writing that always seems to be associated with Hawkeye, than an indictment of Clint's character but a precedent is a precedent. (I also pointed out that Hawkeye likely killed the Silencer back in the second issue of the first Hawkeye series. Has anyone noticed how silent this character has been ever since that series?)
Its amazing that the fans still love this Clint Barton character so much after all the bungling and mischaracterizations that the writers have perpetrated, but the essence of the wise-cracking Hawkeye is truly priceless. Go Hawkeye Go!
I do remember both those occasions. The bit about Silencer is up for debate by many. He definitely fell, possibly to his death... but I assume the reason why he hasn't been used since then was because he really was created to be this expendable goon.
Besides, Clint throwing defending himself and throwing a guy down a 200 ft drop is different than going out looking to kill Osborne in cold blood and shooting people in the face, and throwing them from 60 stories on his way up. I agree about Nicieza's finale, and always wondered what was the outcome of that. But it's still not as bad as what Bendis is having Clint do on a regular basis, nowadays
What_the acolyte Joined: 01.01.1970 Posts: 78
Re: Clint the Killer?
Posted: 11.06.2009 9:07pm
."
LOL, the Silencer pulled a total Phantom Rider IMO..., but hey, Clint was upset.
What_the wrote:
I have to agree with you on your points. This all has to do with bad writing and ignorance of an established character by Bendis and apparently Nicieza too.
I am also now reading the original Avengers series as I have bought the series on disc (highly, highly recommended). If you look at issues 37 and 38 of the original Avengers, you will see that Clint is established as someone who does not kill, and by extension, the Avengers are a team that does not kill. This was what lead to the Avengers near-defeat in this issue and the day was saved by none other than the Black Widow who threatened to kill the enemy. Clint realized that this was wrong and it caused him problems when he was trying to bring her on-board onto the team. It is an interesting twist that Mockingbird would run into a similar situation. I am only now appreciating just how cleverly the whole Mockingbird story was written to echo Clint's problems with Natasha Romanova from 2 decades earlier. It is really unfortunate how this great duo (Hawk and Mock) has been bungled ever since.
We rest our hopes with McCann. Save the Hawk and the Mock oh great one!
BartonIsHawkeye88 wrote:
What_the wrote:
I just reread the Nicieza Hawkeye series recently and I totally forgot about this but it looks to me like Clint killed Foxfire in the final issue (#8 ) aptly titled "A Little Murder". I would say that this was bad writing on the part of Fabian but it does actually set a precedent that Clint is capable of killing. In the issue, Clint didn't even bat an eye-lash when he fired a sharp-tipped arrow with explosisives mounted to the side straight into Fox-Fire's face.
I think that this is more indicative of the laissez-faire writing that always seems to be associated with Hawkeye, than an indictment of Clint's character but a precedent is a precedent. (I also pointed out that Hawkeye likely killed the Silencer back in the second issue of the first Hawkeye series. Has anyone noticed how silent this character has been ever since that series?)
Its amazing that the fans still love this Clint Barton character so much after all the bungling and mischaracterizations that the writers have perpetrated, but the essence of the wise-cracking Hawkeye is truly priceless. Go Hawkeye Go!
I do remember both those occasions. The bit about Silencer is up for debate by many. He definitely fell, possibly to his death... but I assume the reason why he hasn't been used since then was because he really was created to be this expendable goon.
Besides, Clint throwing defending himself and throwing a guy down a 200 ft drop is different than going out looking to kill Osborne in cold blood and shooting people in the face, and throwing them from 60 stories on his way up. I agree about Nicieza's finale, and always wondered what was the outcome of that. But it's still not as bad as what Bendis is having Clint do on a regular basis, nowadays
What_the acolyte Joined: 01.01.1970 Posts: 78
Maybe Clint's on drugs?
Posted: 11.10.2009 5:34am
."
Hey wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that this whole "Clint Barton with a killer" attitude bit that is currently paying out is really a part of a bigger Hawkeye scheme whereby Clint is on drugs or something? What if it turned out that there was a rational explanation for Clint's behavior. Could happen. Surely the current writers can't be that dumb... That could be an interesting story and I'd feel kind of bad about what's been said about Mr. Bendis... But if it turns out that there is no rational explanation, then he deserves it...
Yeah... I'm still willing to bet he's just a mediocre writer who knows how to get New and Casual readers excited about The Avengers, even though he has no love for the established stories and characters (openly admitting that he would take Pym back behind the shed and "off" him, calling Vision a Vacuum, and Scarlet Witch the crazy lady who married a vacuum.) or something along those
lines.
I happen to enjoy Hawkeye when He's Hawkeye not as Ronin in the Ronin Costume. Has it ever been said why Clint choose the name Hawkeye? _________________ Gambit "The Name is Gambit remember it."
He IS Hawkeye. BUt this Ronin shtick is old, and has been for a while. It never really fit him in the first place.
What_the acolyte Joined: 01.01.1970 Posts: 78
Posted: 11.11.2009 1:21pm
."
Hey BIH88, you're probably right, but wouldn't it be cool if it turned out that Clint was right now under some sort of subliminal, subversive mind control by Crossfire. It would be Crossfire's Ultimate revenge by making Clint a killer. Then he could try to use Clint to "foment disorder" in the Marvel Universe in any wasy he pleases. All of which would lead to one mega Crossfire cross-over across all Marvel titles that makes Crossfire and Hawkeye the focus of the Marvel world for a full season.....
Hunh?, oh it's morning already. I was dreaming. Must've dozed off...
BartonIsHawkeye88 wrote:
Yeah... I'm still willing to bet he's just a mediocre writer who knows how to get New and Casual readers excited about The Avengers, even though he has no love for the established stories and characters (openly admitting that he would take Pym back behind the shed and "off" him, calling Vision a Vacuum, and Scarlet Witch the crazy lady who married a vacuum.) or something along those
Hey BIH88, you're probably right, but wouldn't it be cool if it turned out that Clint was right now under some sort of subliminal, subversive mind control by Crossfire. It would be Crossfire's Ultimate revenge by making Clint a killer. Then he could try to use Clint to "foment disorder" in the Marvel Universe in any wasy he pleases. All of which would lead to one mega Crossfire cross-over across all Marvel titles that makes Crossfire and Hawkeye the focus of the Marvel world for a full season.....
Hunh?, oh it's morning already. I was dreaming. Must've dozed off...
BartonIsHawkeye88 wrote:
Yeah... I'm still willing to bet he's just a mediocre writer who knows how to get New and Casual readers excited about The Avengers, even though he has no love for the established stories and characters (openly admitting that he would take Pym back behind the shed and "off" him, calling Vision a Vacuum, and Scarlet Witch the crazy lady who married a vacuum.) or something along those
That's why this petition was made... so we could get Hawkeye fixed ASAP
lol i just replied to this in the other thread but I think that could work, but I think it'd be much more believable if Cap, after his return, gives Clint a pep-talk or slaps some sense into him.
He could simply say to Clint
"Are you proud of what you've become?"
and Clint would take that pretty hard, but he'd get the point
Im not really a Hawkeye fan, (really I just hate that costume, I like Client though)but I thought you guys and gals would like to see this:
I was at home working on a homework assignment about American Romanticism, and I dicsovered that the first fictional "American" hero was a character named Natty Bumppo;also known Deerslayer, Leather stocking, and HAWKEYE. Natty Bumppo is discribed as heroic, virtuous, a skillfull frontiersman, moral, had a love of nature, distrust of towns life, and almost had a superhuman resourcefulness.
Hopefully you guys and gals will enjoy this information.
