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Captain America: Civil... Feb 7, 2016
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Comments

89 comments
OXNARDM
OXNARDM

First thing, Steve is back! Great news, never should have left in the first place. Won't launch into the whole, why you can't shut off the Super-Soldier formula thing, but you can't.

Second, I hate the new uniform, it looks like a reject from the NFL Superpro debacle. Don't mind the smooth cowl, but the rest...terrible. You could have gone for the "Ultimate Cap" look, not the shoulder pad one, the original one.

 Speaking of choices, what is up with that shield? It is truly awful, looks like an attachment for a sander. It splits in two. kind of limits its use as a shield doesn't it? With the options available to you you gave him that? You could have given him back his round shield and given Sam a triangular shield (more aerodynamic), or he could have carried his original triangular shield, again possibly swapping with Sam and what about the Photon shield Steve had for a while, that would be far better for a flying Captain America.

 Not sure about the 2 Captains, but I will hold off before trashing it, even though I have not read this title since that Remender/Romita run, or any of Sam's stuff for that matter. Just out of curiosity, who is responsible for that mess, Brevoort, Alonso, Permutter? All of them, someone else, I'd like to blame Remender, but somebody turned him loose, and they should be held accountable.

 I am really way too old to be annoyed by this stuff, been following Cap since I was 6 or 7, which was 48 years ago. Seen good and bad, many times misrepresented or misinterpreted, but he has always been my favorite. So, treat him right, use him as an example of what things are supposed to be like and how people should be, not as an example of the governments failures. Maybe you should read some his stuff from the late 60's. Might teach you something, that you seem to have forgotten.


edhaney
edhaney

@OXNARDM 


It's a start. I'm ok with the uniform the new shield. The new shield is reminiscent of the original one. I still won't be buying the Sam Wilson series. It is a sad knock off.


I found this on screenrant.com.


Meanwhile, the more well-known circular shield will continue to be held by Sam Wilson, whose individual series, use of the “Captain America” name and focus on politically-charged issues will also continue. The plan is for both Captains to tackle different fronts of battle in the Marvel Universe, with Rogers handling traditional superheroics while Wilson continues his focus on politically-charged, socially-relevant storylines about corruption and community justice.



All I've got to say is that if you get your political news from a comic you are rather sad. I read comics for a release from the crap I see and deal with daily. I don't want it in a comic book. If writers want to make a statement how about they try doing it as a journalist in an appropriate setting.

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

@edhaney


Agree to disagree on the uniform. Why not just give Steve the original shield rather than some homage to the original shield, it somehow manages to look threatening to the idea of Captain America, almost... fascist.


 Two Caps, separate missions? Doesn't work for me. Why is it that we need 2 characters to deal with this? While Sam's voice is likely a good choice for some of these issues, doesn't that set up lines  on their solutions as well? Also if a minority voice is going to be used, shouldn't the person writing those stories be a minority as well, not a white man, interpreting them?


 As to the news issue. Are comics really a worse choice than the main stream media, with their own political agendas?In its pursuit of the almighty dollar the news media has left the truth behind, often treated with derision and mostly ignored. Has anything been said about the members of Congress who took money from Israel to alter their votes on the Iranian peace treaty, a clear act of treason?      Sorry, off topic.


 So, I don't like the new look or the new direction, I will give it a try, but it looks and sounds disappointing.


edhaney
edhaney

@OXNARDM @edhaney 


The way I see it, and maybe because I want to see it, is that the Sam Wilson version is not working. It is a way to segue back to Steve Rogers. Wilson is running around basically messing with street thugs. Steve Rogers is back because there is a need for the tactically sound warrior not a vigilante flying around on a wing and a prayer.

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

Saw the cover for Steve Rogers, Captain America #1. Don't like the new uniform, why doesn't Steve have his shield instead of that triangular knockoff.

pooto
pooto

he should die!!!!! he kills iron man

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

Sounds like Steve is returning as Captain America! Announcement of a book for Free Comic Book Day, as well as a Captain America #1 and an Avengers#1. Just in time for the movie. Hopefully they get it right this time.

edhaney
edhaney

@OXNARDM  I stopped paying attention. If they bring Steve Rogers back I will be back.

MayArgo7
MayArgo7

I was hoping that with the 75 anniversary that the real Captain America Steve Rogers will return but being that Marvel has decided to get rid of every single white male hero,starting with the comics and then moving to other mediums, that not going to happen.    

edhaney
edhaney

Captain America is about a sickly youth who would do anything in his power to serve the nation he loved. It is about his losses, his failures and his triumph. It is about his willingness to allow his country to use an experimental procedure that would allow him to get in the fight. It is about his tragedy and the nation's failure in trying to replace him. It is about his return to life and his ability to bring his code of morals to the modern day. A cast of characters was built because of this character. Now it's been thrown away. It would appear that Marvel will stick with a weak unsure sidekick to move on until this iconic character is in the dust.


Thanks Marvel. I suppose the patriotic, down to earth version doesn't fit your agenda.

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

Watched your Steve Rogers: Captain America 101 video. Only thing I see that I believe you got wrong is that you said he represents America. I believe that should be he represents the American dream. Perhaps you should have mentioned that he fights for what is right, regardless of his foe.

Is that the problem? You view him as an extension of the government? If that's the case you people have no understanding of how most of us view him.

BUBBLENATOR
BUBBLENATOR

the heart and soul of marvel's superheroes the best of any character 

BRING THE ORIGINAL BACK ASAP dump the current all around poop

and get good story tellers to boot

captainAv
captainAv

my favorite super hero in the world 

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

There was a poll recently on comicbookresources.com for the top 100 characters at Marvel and DC. Spider-Man placed number 1 for Marvel. The second spot was, Steve Rogers, Captain America. 

  So, Marvel, when are we getting Steve back? Lets hope you can put a writer on the title that actually understands him. How about the Russo brothers or maybe the guys writing the movie? Because,  it sure seems like you guys have lost your way.

aslyvan
aslyvan

All I have to say is Captain America is  Bad to the Bone when it come to being a superhero, he is straight up old school when getting the Job done.

ZEca
ZEca

Thank you Marvel! Sam "The Falcon" Wilson is the boss here now!


OXNARDM
OXNARDM

@ZEca I require an explanation for this statement.

Pig13
Pig13

I <3 Captian America

edhaney
edhaney

I haven't picked up a Captain America or Avengers title since they changed Cap. Not that my money means a whole lot to Marvel overall but I know I'm not alone. Everyone has an opinion so make it known with the money you spend.

Valone11
Valone11

You don't make marvel more diverse by taking characters we all know and love suddenly changing their races and religions. You just piss off your ,soon to be ex, fan base. If you want super heroes with black, latin, and or muslim backgrounds then invent them. this is a pathetic attempt at pleasing the left.

Valone11
Valone11

@groot4president2k16 @Valone11 MIles Morales and Kamala Khan... you mean Spider Man and Ms. Marvel? Thank you for helping me prove my point further . They already existed as Peter Parker and Carol Danvers. Glad to see we are on the same page pal.

groot4president2k16
groot4president2k16

@Valone11 @groot4president2k16 But we're quite clearly not on the same page. How poor is your reading comprehension???

Kamala & Miles aren't race-swapped versions of existing characters, they're new characters that have borrowed superhero titles that weren't in use. Peter Parker "died" in 1610, and Miles Morales stepped in. Carol Danvers took the title of Captain Marvel after Mar-Vell died. The name "Ms. Marvel" was no longer in use, so Kamala used it. This isn't difficult to understand, "pal".

You didn't respond to the first thing either (surprise, surprise) - did you whine about  "pandering to the left" when Bucky Barnes or The Punisher became Captain America?

Valone11
Valone11

@groot4president2k16 @Valone11 Looking at most of the comments here people have already decided what they want. You are the one that is whining, and insulting people, pal. :)

groot4president2k16
groot4president2k16

@Valone11 @groot4president2k16 Lol, and again, you can't seem to respond to anything that's actually been said. For the *third* time: did you complain about "pandering" when Bucky Barnes or The Punisher took over the role of Captain America?

And I haven't insulted you at all though? I questioned how poor your reading comprehension is because you deliberately interpreted disagreement as agreement, and decided to be smug in place of having anything to say.

I haven't "whined" either - that would be you, with your first post, whining about "the left" (with some extra whining about characters of different races and religions). Pointing out your nonsense isn't whining, and you're still unable to form a coherent argument.

A handful of comments on one specific page don't really count for much. Loads of people love Sam Wilson as Cap, and the lowest monthly sales point for All-New Cap was ~40,000, which is significantly higher than a lot of other Marvel titles. Plus he's had the "Fear Him" series, "Captain America and the Avengers", and fans keep buying his comics. Not sure where this supposed "soon to be ex-fanbase" is. Stay salty, pal. ;)

edhaney
edhaney

I guess it did switch them.....

groot4president2k16
groot4president2k16

@Valone11 Characters borrow different identities all the time in comics. I'll bet you didn't think it was a "pathetic attempt pleasing the left" when Bucky, or even The Punisher took over the role of Cap. And Marvel *do* create characters with different ethnic backgrounds, like Miles Morales or Kamala Khan, still doesn't stop reactionaries from throwing a tantrum about perceived "pandering".

edhaney
edhaney

What are you insinuating with this question?

*For the *third* time: did you complain about "pandering" when Bucky Barnes or The Punisher took over the role of Captain America? *

(Sorry about caps. Posting from phone and won't switch)

groot4president2k16
groot4president2k16

@edhaney It's fairly common for superheroes to take on new identities or titles. The point was that Valone only considers it "a pathetic attempt at pleasing the left" when a black superhero takes on a new title. If a white character (such as Bucky Barnes) borrows the name Captain America, that's absolutely fine, which is why they dodged the question three times (because it'd make them look a little bit racist).

"If you want your superheroes black, latin or Muslim then invent them!", they exclaimed. But when I mentioned Kamala as an example of a new character, Valone chose to use that as further proof that Marvel are "swapping" the races and religions of their existing characters. This is obviously untrue, because Carol Danvers *still exists* but goes by Captain Marvel now. It's apparently an awful act of pandering if Marvel invent a new Muslim heroine to take on a title that hasn't been in use since 2012. (I'm guessing they also didn't mind when Sharon Ventura became Ms. Marvel either.)


White character taking on an existing title = no problem.

Black or brown person doing the same thing = OMG pandering! Political correctness gone mad!! etc.


It's just biased, internally inconsistent, reactionary nonsense, which was the point I was making.

groot4president2k16
groot4president2k16

@avengersattack123 @groot4president2k16 @Valone11 I'm British, so actually my grammar is fine in that example. British English allows for collective nouns (Marvel, for instance) to be treated as either singular or plural. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Oh, and for the record, you're supposed to use a comma or colon before placing that kind of quote in a sentence. You should also take another look at the punctuation and structure of the second clause of your comment, because those are some embarrassing mistakes to make when criticising someone else's grammar. ;)

avengersattack123
avengersattack123

@groot4president2k16 @Valone11  Okay, your grammar is just excellent here "And Marvel *do* create characters with..."  you should have used *does* if you're going to try to prove a point at least use correct grammar.

edhaney
edhaney

@groot4president2k16 @Valone11 


The difference is that Captain America (Steve Rogers) was in use in both of the Marvel Universes at the time of the switch. The character was not in limbo. He was stripped of his powers by an old enemy to further an already crappy story-line. The character was usurped to pander to people who likely don't read the comic by people who don't understand the origin and history. Agendas in comics tend to get squashed and forgotten when they don't turn out the way they were expected to. I haven't read the Sam Wilson version of the comic so I have no clue how it is turning out but based on what my comic store owner told me, he can't sell them.

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

I recently read a statement by Axel Alonso, that said Sam Wilson is a representation of "every man", implying, that Sam's Captain America is somehow better because of this. I disagree, Captain America is an ideal, an inspiration, something to aspire to.  Whether or not that image can be achieved is unimportant, it is the example that matters. His remark only goes to show me that his understanding of the character is limited and misguided.

Might I suggest reading Captain America issue 120, Crack up on Campus, from 1968, I was 7 when I read that book and it defines Captain America for me, as someone who believes in the people and their rights, and will defend them even if it means standing against the people in power.

 Give Sam back his identity, treat him with respect. Give him his own voice and his own book, its good I'll buy it, cuz I'm not buying it now. Return Steve to his rightful place, where he belongs.


edhaney
edhaney

@OXNARDM  They can't give Falcon his own book because it won't sell. The background characters aren't there. They had to switch his identity in order to get him over. I don't know if it's working or not.


I have been buying the WWII Captain America books that have been on the shelf recently. It's something at least.

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

We are part way there, it looks like Remender is gone, now bring Steve back and give Sam his own identity and book.

Avengersobssedo
Avengersobssedo

He's my favorite superhero ever. he worships god and he tries to be the best man he can be.

I've read over 200 ishes that have him in it.

Avengersobssedo
Avengersobssedo

The thing I personally like abt these patriotic super heroes are that they fight for their lands and their liberties just like in the book of Alma chapter 46 paragraph 12.

To me it's one of the most inspiring ambitions of all time.

blackbolt46
blackbolt46

I wish Steve Rogers would get his powers back and be young again. I stopped reading Cap for the first time in a very long time Marvel takes away Sam Wilson's identity as the Falcon and make him Captain America, why? I was hoping this was going to be short lived, but not so. Just bring back young super soldier Steve Rogers.

OXNARDM
OXNARDM

saw the "New Marvel" image, not impressed.  This was your chance to erase the Remender era and you wasted it. I am done with you Marvel, at least until Steve Rogers returns as Captain America.